Resources Requested *URGENT*

benroeletsgo · #1 Nov 26, '10, 5:21 pm

I am a member of the Orthodox-Catholic Church and an nearing my profession of vows as a Benedictine. As I will be the first and only in our Diocese I am in desperate need for a full habit and/or a pattern. Does anyone know where i can acquire either or both?

elizabeth_anne · #2 Nov 26, '10, 6:27 pm

Umm...are you starting a new community of Benedictines? Because generally you would need to be in formation before vows...and if you are really going to be a benedictine you should get a pattern or habit from the benedictines you are associated with. You should not wear a habit if you are not genuinely a part of a religious community. By the way, God bless you!

lizaanne · #3 Nov 26, '10, 6:48 pm

I find it strange that this is not being provided to you by the order.

~Liza

**Trishie** · #4 Nov 26, '10, 6:51 pm

Hi elizabeth_anne, I was surprised at first that the Order wouldn't naturally supply a habit to one of its own, however, there seems to be some difference in setup in the Orthodox Order of St Benedict.

"The Order of Saint Benedict is a loose affiliation of monastics of the Orthodox Church who strive to live according to the Rule of St Benedict. While there is no actual incorporated body known as the "Order of Saint Benedict", Orthodox Benedictines enjoy good relations with each other, which frequently cross jurisdictional boundaries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...ict_(Orthodox)

http://www.stjamesthejust.com/trueor...edictines.html

http://monkallover.blogspot.com/2006...ine-monks.html

Hopefully someone is able to respond with help, but benroeletsgo himself/herself does not appear to know where this help might be accessed, hence this site, I guess.

A prayer that someone who can help will respond to your request, benroeletsgo.

**Friar David, O.Carm** · #5 Nov 26, '10, 6:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trishie

Hi elizabeth_anne, I was surprised at first that the Order wouldn't naturally supply a habit to one of its own, however, there seems to be some difference in setup in the Orthodox Order of St Benedict.

"The Order of Saint Benedict is a loose affiliation of monastics of the Orthodox Church who strive to live according to the Rule of St Benedict. While there is no actual incorporated body known as the "Order of Saint Benedict", Orthodox Benedictines enjoy good relations with each other, which frequently cross jurisdictional boundaries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...ict_(Orthodox)

http://www.stjamesthejust.com/trueor...edictines.html

Hopefully someone is able to respond with help, but benroeletsgo himself/herself does not appear to know where this help might be accessed, hence this site, I guess.

A prayer that someone who can help will respond to your request, benroeletsgo.

While this is great information I do not think it applies. benroeletsgo says that he(?) is a member of the of the Orthodox-Catholic Church which is not part of any Orthodox jurisdiction.

They ordain women. That is a sure way to know that they are not part of the Orthodox Church.

lizaanne · #6 Nov 26, '10, 7:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

They ordain women.

~Liza

Armada · #7 Nov 27, '10, 5:32 am

Try a church supply house store or on the internet. I find it hard that you have to find your own vestments. I have seen vestments when I have researched books and statues for my own needs. Precious Blood of Jesus Christ, Save Us and The Whole World.

benroeletsgo · #8 Nov 27, '10, 9:31 am

Just to clarify a few things as there seems to be some confusion. The Orthodox-Catholic Church IS ORTHODOX. The Orthodox-Catholic Church of America (OCCA) is an independent, self-governing Orthodox jurisdiction active primarily in the United States, but with clergy in Mexico and Australia as well. It is governed by a synod of diocesan bishops (currently 11) and a metropolitan archbishop. The current Metropolitan is Archbishop Peter (Robert Zahrt). They are not in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and are not regarded as canonical by the rest of the Orthodox Church (mainly because of the ordination of gays and women). Just because we're not in communion with Constantinople or Rome doesn't make us any less important to God and our Congregants. Also, as far as I know, I'm the first of my kind to take on the Benedictine Rule in my Diocese if not in the whole of our church in the US.... therefore... we have no formal monastery and thus I would be considered a solitary or hermit Benedictine... which was not uncommon in the beginning when Benedict started this all. Now that that's out of the way and I'm certain I've offended at least one person in this room I'm am still in desperate need of a Habit.
In Christ,
Benjamin Christopher, Consecrated Seminarian and Acting Deacon St. Thomas Mission O.C.C.A.

lizaanne · #9 Nov 27, '10, 11:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by benroeletsgo

Just because we're not in communion with Constantinople or Rome doesn't make us any less important to God and our Congregants.

Why in the world, with all the good holy orders out there that ARE in full communion with Rome or Constantinople, would you want to be affiliated with a group like that? I just don't understand what good can possibly come from it, for anyone.

You don't have valid holy orders, so there is no valid consecration of the Eucharist. It's just another Protestant sect - what's the point?

~Liza

justme · #10 Nov 27, '10, 2:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benroeletsgo

Just to clarify a few things as there seems to be some confusion. The Orthodox-Catholic Church IS ORTHODOX. The Orthodox-Catholic Church of America (OCCA) is an independent, self-governing Orthodox jurisdiction active primarily in the United States, but with clergy in Mexico and Australia as well. It is governed by a synod of diocesan bishops (currently 11) and a metropolitan archbishop. The current Metropolitan is Archbishop Peter (Robert Zahrt). They are not in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and are not regarded as canonical by the rest of the Orthodox Church (mainly because of the ordination of gays and women). Just because we're not in communion with Constantinople or Rome doesn't make us any less important to God and our Congregants. Also, as far as I know, I'm the first of my kind to take on the Benedictine Rule in my Diocese if not in the whole of our church in the US.... therefore... we have no formal monastery and thus I would be considered a solitary or hermit Benedictine... which was not uncommon in the beginning when Benedict started this all. Now that that's out of the way and I'm certain I've offended at least one person in this room I'm am still in desperate need of a Habit.
In Christ,
Benjamin Christopher, Consecrated Seminarian and Acting Deacon St. Thomas Mission O.C.C.A.

Not to be disrespectful but..... How can a Church claim a connection with the Orthodoxy but ordain women?

**Shoshana** · #11 Nov 27, '10, 2:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizaanne

Why in the world, with all the good holy orders out there that ARE in full communion with Rome or Constantinople, would you want to be affiliated with a group like that? I just don't understand what good can possibly come from it, for anyone.

You don't have valid holy orders, so there is no valid consecration of the Eucharist. It's just another Protestant sect - what's the point?

~Liza

The Orthodox Church is not another protestant group...John Paul 2 has said that the Eastern/Werstern churches are like both sets of lungs. They are not in communion but are not relegated to protestanism.

But for ordaining women, well, THAT is like a protestant church....

lizaanne · #12 Nov 27, '10, 3:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoshana

The Orthodox Church is not another protestant group...John Paul 2 has said that the Eastern/Werstern churches are like both sets of lungs. They are not in communion but are not relegated to protestanism.

But for ordaining women, well, THAT is like a protestant church....

Did you READ the OP's description of what he's joining - or even my post? I never said that The Orthodox Church is protestant, I said that what HE is joining is protestant. Please read carefully.

~Liza

**Shoshana** · #13 Nov 27, '10, 4:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizaanne

Did you READ the OP's description of what he's joining - or even my post? I never said that The Orthodox Church is protestant, I said that what HE is joining is protestant. Please read carefully.

~Liza

Forgive me.

joandarc2008 · #14 Nov 27, '10, 10:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benroeletsgo

Just to clarify a few things as there seems to be some confusion. The Orthodox-Catholic Church IS ORTHODOX. The Orthodox-Catholic Church of America (OCCA) is an independent, self-governing Orthodox jurisdiction active primarily in the United States, but with clergy in Mexico and Australia as well. It is governed by a synod of diocesan bishops (currently 11) and a metropolitan archbishop. The current Metropolitan is Archbishop Peter (Robert Zahrt). They are not in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and are not regarded as canonical by the rest of the Orthodox Church (mainly because of the ordination of gays and women). Just because we're not in communion with Constantinople or Rome doesn't make us any less important to God and our Congregants. Also, as far as I know, I'm the first of my kind to take on the Benedictine Rule in my Diocese if not in the whole of our church in the US.... therefore... we have no formal monastery and thus I would be considered a solitary or hermit Benedictine... which was not uncommon in the beginning when Benedict started this all. Now that that's out of the way and I'm certain I've offended at least one person in this room I'm am still in desperate need of a Habit.
In Christ,
Benjamin Christopher, Consecrated Seminarian and Acting Deacon St. Thomas Mission O.C.C.A.

I know in the Catholic that there are MAJOR canonical issues with taking vows with a religious order outside of communion with Rome. Such as a Brother/Sister can only be outside of Communion for a certain number of years without there being issues with their vows with the whatever order it is since order gets their recognition from Rome.

I think you should talk to someone like JREducation or ByzCath who are Brothers who can guide you in these issues and what they will mean for you before taking these vows. None of us can judge God's intention but I think it is important for you to know what it means canonically.

benroeletsgo · #15 Nov 28, '10, 11:35 am

Why in the world would I join the OCCA? because it was the ONLY PLACE i was welcomed and was invited to study and take holy orders. I've got a question. Why in the world am I receiving such UNWELCOMING, UNCHRISTIAN, HATEFUL responses. This makes me very sad. How can you call yourselves christian and treat another person the way you are and say the things you've been saying. The fact of the matter is I'm doing my best to SERVE GOD and my COMMUNITY through what means GOD HAS GIVEN ME. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME? CAN YOU NOT SEE THE BEAM IN YOUR OWN EYE?