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  #1  
Old Dec 2, '10, 7:15 pm
ThankYouJesus ThankYouJesus is offline
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Default Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Just curious if Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. I've never heard about it at church. My history knowledge is terrible.
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  #2  
Old Dec 2, '10, 7:41 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

We don't really know. We can assume he did if Jews in his day were celebrating the feast. The events which Hannukkah commemorate happened only about 200 years before Christ's birth. So, it would have been a relatively new festival.
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  #3  
Old Dec 2, '10, 8:00 pm
maryceleste maryceleste is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

I did some reading about this a while back, to figure out what to teach our children about this holiday. The events that are being commemorated happened in 165 BC, so the celebration was likely already well established by the time of Christ. I've read on various web sites that it's what's referred to as the "feast of the dedication" in the NT.

Still, I'm not sure that the festival back then looked much like it does today. For instance, from what I've read, families in that era wouldn't have had a menorah at home. The menorah would have been kept in the Temple. In addition, the children wouldn't have played with a dreidl. That tradition was started many centuries later, during the diaspora. If I recall correctly, it's based on a children's game from Ireland, of all places.


(While looking into this, I learned that many other customs that we think of as stereotypically Jewish were in fact adopted from Christian Europe, such as bagels (Poland), dancing the hora at weddings (Romania), and those fur hats the Hasidic men wear (various countries). They've certainly made those traditions their own over the years. But it makes it somewhat hard to figure out how the Holy Family lived 2000 years ago. No gefilte fish? No schmaltz herring? Oy vey! )
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  #4  
Old Dec 2, '10, 9:13 pm
duffyk4 duffyk4 is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryceleste View Post
I did some reading about this a while back, to figure out what to teach our children about this holiday. The events that are being commemorated happened in 165 BC, so the celebration was likely already well established by the time of Christ. I've read on various web sites that it's what's referred to as the "feast of the dedication" in the NT.

Still, I'm not sure that the festival back then looked much like it does today. For instance, from what I've read, families in that era wouldn't have had a menorah at home. The menorah would have been kept in the Temple. In addition, the children wouldn't have played with a dreidl. That tradition was started many centuries later, during the diaspora. If I recall correctly, it's based on a children's game from Ireland, of all places.


(While looking into this, I learned that many other customs that we think of as stereotypically Jewish were in fact adopted from Christian Europe, such as bagels (Poland), dancing the hora at weddings (Romania), and those fur hats the Hasidic men wear (various countries). They've certainly made those traditions their own over the years. But it makes it somewhat hard to figure out how the Holy Family lived 2000 years ago. No gefilte fish? No schmaltz herring? Oy vey! )
Well, those countries all have (or had) large Jewish populations.
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  #5  
Old Dec 2, '10, 9:25 pm
maryceleste maryceleste is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

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Originally Posted by duffyk4 View Post
Well, those countries all have (or had) large Jewish populations.
Yes, and it's pretty well established that the Jewish populations adopted those customs from the non-Jewish populations. Nothing unexpected about that, of course; every culture adapts and mixes with others. E.g., the Italians got spaghetti from the Chinese, and pizza from the Middle East.

My point was just that it's not easy to figure out how families would have lived and worshiped in the Holy Land in Jesus' time. But it's interesting to read about.
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  #6  
Old Dec 2, '10, 9:35 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

I remembered a Jewish friend of mine yesterday and had a dinner delivered to his home.
That is what is important. Remembering people in our lives. He lives alone and is out of state. I have no idea if there is a God or not. I have no idea if the Jews or the Christians understand God any better than anyone else does.
I don't really feel I can know that now.

I just know that many do believe. And, I care about many people.
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  #7  
Old Dec 2, '10, 10:15 pm
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e46m3 e46m3 is offline
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Talking Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryceleste View Post
....it makes it somewhat hard to figure out how the Holy Family lived 2000 years ago. No gefilte fish? No schmaltz herring? Oy vey! )
yeah. I wonder if mary called jesus her little boobaloo.
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  #8  
Old Dec 2, '10, 10:23 pm
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Probably not because by the time He was born, there was already Christmas

















(if you still didn't get it, it was a joke)
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  #9  
Old Dec 2, '10, 10:35 pm
maryceleste maryceleste is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Here's an account from the late 1st century, from the Jewish historian Josephus. Not a whole lot of details about how they celebrated, but it sounds like a great party.
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  #10  
Old Dec 3, '10, 1:36 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThankYouJesus View Post
Just curious if Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. I've never heard about it at church. My history knowledge is terrible.
Everyone already gave good answers, but I'm surprised that no ever brought up that passage from John yet:
And the Dedication (ta enkainia 'the dedications', in the festive plural; cf. ḥănukkāh from ḥanuk, 'to dedicate') in Jerusalem came, and it was winter; and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the stoa of Solomon. The Judaeans then surrounded Him and said to Him, "Until when will you lift up our life? If you are the Anointed, tell us freely."
Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in the name of my Father, these testify about me, but you do not believe for you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and life eternal I give to them, and they will never perish to the age, and no one will seize them out of my hand; my Father, who has given to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch out of the hand of my Father. I and the Father are one."
Again the Judeans take up stones that they may stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works did I show you from the Father; because of which work of them do you stone me?" The Judeans answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone you but for blasphemy, and because you, a man, make yourself God."
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law: 'I said, you are gods?' If them he did call gods to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), of Him whom the Father did sanctify and send to the world, do you say, 'You are blaspheming', because I said, 'Son of God I am?' If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me, but if I do, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and may believe that in the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
[Then] they seeking again to seize Him, and He went out of their hand, and went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was at first baptizing, and was remaining there; and many came to Him and said, "John, indeed, did no sign, but everything, as many as John said about this one, were true." And many believed in Him there.
What an Hannukah.
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  #11  
Old Dec 3, '10, 1:45 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryceleste View Post
Yes, and it's pretty well established that the Jewish populations adopted those customs from the non-Jewish populations. Nothing unexpected about that, of course; every culture adapts and mixes with others. E.g., the Italians got spaghetti from the Chinese, and pizza from the Middle East.
Erm, nope. Marco Polo did NOT import pasta from China, and pizza-like foodstuffs were already being eaten by Greeks (plakous) and Romans (placenta).
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  #12  
Old Dec 3, '10, 7:55 am
maryceleste maryceleste is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

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Originally Posted by patrick457 View Post
Erm, nope. Marco Polo did NOT import pasta from China
I didn't think they literally imported it -- just that the Chinese seem to have originated the idea of making it into long thin noodles (i.e, spaghetti). The ancient Italian "pasta" is said to have been rolled out in sheets of dough, more like pastry. And it was often fried. (*)

Quote:
and pizza-like foodstuffs were already being eaten by Greeks (plakous) and Romans (placenta).
Hey, enough with the placenta eating! Seriously, I though the ancient Roman dish was a sweet filled pastry, rather than bread with savory stuff baked on top. But I guess this is a hotly disputed area (about 450F should do it ).


(*) Speaking of fried foods: The tradition of using lots of cooking oil at Hanukkah is based on the story of the lamp that lasted 8 days with just a small amount of oil. This story is found in the Talmud, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned by Josephus, nor in the Biblical account in Maccabees. So it's not clear if the Holy Family would have made a special point of eating fried foods for this holiday. If they did, it wouldn't have been potatoes, as those came from the New World.

Maybe they had fried pasta instead. Or elephant ears.
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  #13  
Old Dec 3, '10, 8:09 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryceleste View Post
I didn't think they literally imported it -- just that the Chinese seem to have originated the idea of making it into long thin noodles (i.e, spaghetti). The ancient Italian "pasta" is said to have been rolled out in sheets of dough, more like pastry. And it was often fried. (*)
Well, AFAIK the oldest known pasta or noodle-like food were indeed found in China at Lajia in Qinghai (associated with the early Bronze Age Qijia culture). The 4,000-year-old noodles appear to have been made from foxtail millet and broom millet. Of course, the Chinese did not have durum wheat until later times.
[indent]Hey, enough with the placenta eating! Seriously, I though the ancient Roman dish was a sweet filled pastry, rather than bread with savory stuff baked on top. But I guess this is a hotly disputed area (about 450F should do it ).

Quote:
(*) Speaking of fried foods: The tradition of using lots of cooking oil at Hanukkah is based on the story of the lamp that lasted 8 days with just a small amount of oil. This story is found in the Talmud, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned by Josephus, nor in the Biblical account in Maccabees. So it's not clear if the Holy Family would have made a special point of eating fried foods for this holiday. If they did, it wouldn't have been potatoes, as those came from the New World.

Maybe they had fried pasta instead. Or elephant ears.
Well, I do doubt that they ate latkes. Or spun dreidels or sung traditional Hanukkah music
(daily recitation of the Hallel - Psalms 113-118 - and carrying palms seem to have been part of the custom then though).

BTW, 'elephant ears' brings us to the question: are elephants kosher?
Then again, Eleazar Maccabeus was killed in battle by mistakenly attacking a Seleucid war elephant, thereby causing it to collapse upon him (cf. 1 Maccabees 6:43-46), but yeah.

Trivia: the eating of dairy foods, especially cheese, on Hanukkah actually has its roots in the story of Judith!
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  #14  
Old Dec 3, '10, 8:24 am
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick457 View Post
Everyone already gave good answers, but I'm surprised that no ever brought up that passage from John yet:
[indent]And the Dedication (ta enkainia 'the dedications', in the festive plural; cf. ḥănukkāh from ḥanuk, 'to dedicate') in Jerusalem came, and it was winter; and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the stoa of Solomon. The Judaeans then surrounded Him and said to Him, "Until when will you lift up our life? If you are the Anointed, tell us freely."
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john10.htm

As above, that's in John 10:22 - NAB.

"The feast of the Dedication (9) was then taking place in Jerusalem. It was winter.

(10) And Jesus walked about in the temple area on the Portico of Solomon.

So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, "How long are you going to keep us in suspense? (11) If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered them, "I told you (12) and you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify to me.

But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep."

References:

9. Feast of the Dedication: an eight-day festival of lights (Hebrew, Hanukkah) held in December, three months after the feast of Tabernacles (John 7:2), to celebrate the Maccabees' rededication of the altar and reconsecration of the temple in 164 B.C., after their desecration by Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Daniel 8:13; 9:27; cf 1 Macc 4:36-59; 2 Macc 1:18-2:19; 10:1-8).

10. Portico of Solomon: on the east side of the temple area, offering protection against the cold winds from the desert.

11. Keep us in suspense: literally, "How long will you take away our life?" Cf John 11:48-50. If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly: cf Luke 22:67. This is the climax of Jesus' encounters with the Jewish authorities. There has never yet been an open confession before them.

12. I told you: probably at John 8:25 which was an evasive answer.
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  #15  
Old Dec 3, '10, 8:28 am
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah?

Interestingly, I did a google search to locate the exact Bible version and then I pulled up a raptureforums.com website.

Their answer to the question (because their Protestant Bible doesn't include Maccabees 1 or 2) is this:

"While the story of Hanukkah (also known as the Feast of Dedication) is not contained in the Bible, it is referred to in John 10:22 and given God's approval by the fact that Jesus attended it (John 10:23). You can find a complete explanation of it in various places online. One of the best is at Learn About Hanukkah or the Bible Feast of Dedication."
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