Jews and Jesus: Addressing accusations that Christians misinterpret scripture?

[glencora]

I sometimes read Jewish websites. How do you address accusations that Christians misinterpret scripture to make Jesus the Messiah? On one site, Aish.com; the Rabbi said that the word "alma" means "young
woman" and not "virgin, as interpreted by the early church fathers.

…"(Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods”.)

Below is the entire article. God bless!

Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

by Rabbi Shraga Simmons

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

[Della]

The Church is perfectly aware that the word alma means young woman/virgin. What our Jewish friends don't seem to know is that the OT passages quoted in the NT by the Apostles/Gospel writers are meant to be witnesses to Jesus fulfilling prophecies, not proofs of who he is. The whole of the Bible is a witness not a proof-text, as some would use it. So, it doesn't matter if the word alma means young woman or virgin, the promise is the same and was fulfilled by the Incarnation of Christ.

[Barbkw]

Pope John Paul II refered to Jews as our older brother.

I've watch 3 Jewish converts on EWTN (Sister Rosalind Moss, Br. Bob Fishman, and Roy Schoeman) and their knowledge has been very helpful and so insightful toward my understanding and appreciation of the Old and New Testament (prefigurement and fulfillment).

That being said, I've also listened to Jews on other programs (Discovery) and their understanding of the Old Testament is so shallow and superficial that I've been left to wonder if their belief in God the Father borders on agnosticism and numerology.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by Barbkw

Pope John Paul II refered to Jews as our older brother.

I've watch 3 Jewish converts on EWTN (Sister Rosalind Moss, Br. Bob Fishman, and Roy Schoeman) and they've knowledge has been very helpful and so insightful toward my understanding and appreciation of the Old and New Testament.

That being said, I've also listened to Jews on other programs (Discovery) and their understanding of the Old Testament is so shallow and superficial that I've been left to wonder if their belief in God the Father borders on agnosticism and numerology.

It may well be because you're under the misapprehension that "Christianity equals Judaism plus Jesus/Judaism equals Christianity minus Jesus" - they're not.

Judaism and Christianity don't 'work' the same way, they're paradigmatically different religions.

[po18guy]

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

It may well be because you're under the misapprehension that "Christianity equals Judaism plus Jesus/Judaism equals Christianity minus Jesus" - they're not.

Rather, G-d's covenant equals the fulfillment of His promises.

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

Judaism and Christianity don't 'work' the same way, they're paradigmatically different religions.

Only if you insist on making them such. The same can be said of each of G-d's covenants with man.

Consider: When has the L-rd been silent among the people of His covenant for 2,000 years? Do you not consider that something foundational, something elementary must have changed?

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by po18guy

Rather, G-d's covenant equals the fulfillment of His promises.

Only if you insist on making them such. The same can be said of each of G-d's covenants with man.

Consider: When has the L-rd been silent among the people of His covenant for 2,000 years? Do you not consider that something foundational, something elementary must have changed?

I was just trying to point out that 'Judaism from a Jewish perspective' was different from 'what Christians tend to want to define Judaism as being'. Obviously, you have every right to define Judaism in any way you want to, it's just that it's likely to bear little resemblance to how Jews understand our religion.

[Barbkw]

As a believer in Sacramental Catholicism, I see the flow of grace from God the Father to God the Son in our Mass - a flow which began in the Old Covenant, it runs through the New Covenant and it will continue pouring throughout time within His Church.

[Steel Pinwheel]

Originally Posted by glencora

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]I sometimes read Jewish websites. How do you address accusations that Christians misinterpret scripture to make Jesus the Messiah? On one site, Aish.com; the Rabbi said that the word "alma" means "young
woman" and not "virgin, as interpreted by the early church fathers.

The Septuagint uses the word virgin. Maybe these BC translators knew something we don't? Hebrew was a dead language for most of the last 2000 years, meaning its not as well understood as some other ancient languages. Jews themselves are disinterested in believing alma mean virgin.

For the Israelites, alma would almost have to mean virgin. A young, unmarried woman would be expected to be a virgin (else she would be facing a stoning or a shotgun marriage). Indeed, "alma" is not used in reference to any woman known not to be a virgin (except in this one a priori case of a virgin giving birth).

Even if the word "alma" does not mean virgin, it changes nothing. Mary was a virgin in both senses of the word! The NT teaches that Mary was a virgin, regardless of anything the OT says.

As for the OT prophesies of the messiah, there are two schools of thought. The popular school is that Jesus will return and finish what he didn't finish the first time. The less popular view is that Jesus fulfilled all he prophesies the first time, just in a more spiritual way. Jesus himself is the third temple. The restored Israel is the church. Etc. This called Preterism. I'm not really sure where the Catholic Church is on this.

[po18guy]

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

I was just trying to point out that 'Judaism from a Jewish perspective' was different from 'what Christians tend to want to define Judaism as being'. Obviously, you have every right to define Judaism in any way you want to, it's just that it's likely to bear little resemblance to how Jews understand our religion.

Clearly, Christians define Judaism as being fulfilled in Christ, with the gentiles also being offered redemption through the Jewish Messiah. This is not unprecedented, as G-d withheld His punishment of gentile Nineveh through the preaching of Jonah - a "type" of Messiah.

Both of us know that salvation is from the Jews. However, a new and everlasting covenant was prophesied, and were I a Jew (a possibility, what with New York "King" family members on mom's side), I would wonder at the two millennia which have passed in relative silence among those who observe the Mosaic covenant. The L-rd has never waited that long to act among His chosen.

[Vince1022]

Originally Posted by glencora

On one site, Aish.com; the Rabbi said that the word "alma" means "young
woman" and not "virgin, as interpreted by the early church fathers.

That is accurate, as all Catholic biblical scholars I know of recognize.

No problem for Catholics.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by po18guy

Clearly, Christians define Judaism as being fulfilled in Christ, with the gentiles also being offered redemption through the Jewish Messiah. This is not unprecedented, as G-d withheld His punishment of gentile Nineveh through the preaching of Jonah - a "type" of Messiah.

Well, I'm sure Mormons or whoever define Catholicism as being something or other which will mean something to Mormons but little to Catholics.

Both of us know that salvation is from the Jews.

That's an assumption from the Christian paradigm - I don't think Christians need saving from anything.

However, a new and everlasting covenant was prophesied, and were I a Jew (a possibility, what with New York "King" family members on mom's side), I would wonder at the two millennia which have passed in relative silence among those who observe the Mosaic covenant. The L-rd has never waited that long to act among His chosen.

I've always been bemused by that argument from people who have been waiting for their 'Savior' to return for a couple of thousand years.

[po18guy]

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

I don't think Christians need saving from anything.

Do Jews?

Originally Posted by Kaninchen

I've always been bemused by that argument from people who have been waiting for their 'Savior' to return for a couple of thousand years.

I am glad that something bemuses you! However, Christians do not wait in despair. We do not wait at all. We are called to watch for His return, but we do not suffer any sort of absence. The Savior of the world is with us now. He is present in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by po18guy

Do Jews?

Not in the Christian sense, no. As I said before, it's a mistake to think that Judaism 'works' like Christianity.

I am glad that something bemuses you! However, Christians do not wait in despair. We do not wait at all. We are called to watch for His return, but we do not suffer any sort of absence. The Savior of the world is with us now. He is present in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

That's your explanation and you're sticking to it!

[dcb188]

For a Christian Jew's perspective, go to Zola Levitt ministries website. Their ministry teaches Christianity from a Jewish perspective, and they are witnessing to Jews, being Jews themself. Zola Levitt has since passed on, but Dr Jeffrey Seif is the head person there. They have resources that will explain Christianity not only from a Jewish perspective but in the hopes of converting Jews to Christianity.

[Kaninchen]

Originally Posted by dcb188

For a Christian Jew's perspective, go to Zola Levitt ministries website. Their ministry teaches Christianity from a Jewish perspective, and they are witnessing to Jews, being Jews themself. Zola Levitt has since passed on, but Dr Jeffrey Seif is the head person there. They have resources that will explain Christianity not only from a Jewish perspective but in the hopes of converting Jews to Christianity.

That's an attraction?