Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Dec 14, '10, 5:25 pm
tonydavies tonydavies is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 2010
Posts: 85
Religion: Catholic
Default Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

I ask this question so as to clarify whether I was living in sin whilst married to my civilly married non-baptised wife of 20 years. We are now separated.

I was baptised Catholic. My maternal Grandmother God bless her was the only person of faith in my family but she died while I was still young and the extended family including my Father / Mother had long stopped attending Mass.

After I was married civilly I returned by the grace of God to the Church also bringing my wife and our children to attend mass as well. All my children received Baptism, religious education, First Communion at the appropriate ages. Although I prayed for I could not realise my wifes conversion or baptism to the Church.

This is an area of confusion for me and though I have searched this site, I have not found an answer to my particular case i.e. is a civil marriage between baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful or conversely was it sacramental? I just dont know.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Dec 14, '10, 5:45 pm
Bakuryokuso Bakuryokuso is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2010
Posts: 118
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Did you ever have the marriage validated before a priest?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Dec 14, '10, 6:48 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: June 24, 2004
Posts: 15,922
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Can. 1059 Even if only one party is Catholic, the marriage of Catholics is governed not only by divine law but also by canon law, without prejudice to the competence of civil authority concerning the merely civil effects of the same marriage.
A Catholic can only contract a valid marriage in accord with canon law. This usually requires that it be contracted in a Catholic ceremony with proper permissions/dispensations if the other party is not Catholic.

It would be best to check this with your priest. There are always details which may affect the answer, and the internet is not the place to discuss them.

Since you are now separated, a conversation with a priest should easily resolve the matter.
__________________
I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Dec 14, '10, 8:21 pm
tonydavies tonydavies is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 2010
Posts: 85
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakuryokuso View Post
Did you ever have the marriage validated before a priest?
No I/we didn't have our marriage validated. I did not know I needed to have our marriage validated. Father was aware of the situation I described but he nor anyone ever raised a question about the status of my marriage. I am only now learning about these things through this Catholic site for the first time ever.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Dec 14, '10, 8:29 pm
Bakuryokuso Bakuryokuso is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2010
Posts: 118
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydavies View Post
No I/we didn't have our marriage validated. I did not know I needed to have our marriage validated. Father was aware of the situation I described but he nor anyone ever raised a question about the status of my marriage. I am only now learning about these things through this Catholic site for the first time ever.
The Monsignor at my Basilica told me he performs more validations than actual sacramental marriages.

My understanding is if it isn't validated, there's no marriage and you're basically committing a mortal sin when you have sexual relations. That's my understanding though, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. But receiving communion requires a regularized marriage situation.

I'd definitely talk to the priest about it
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Dec 14, '10, 8:30 pm
geovet geovet is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2006
Posts: 97
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

I've had the same basic problem. When I talked with my priest, we had our marriage validated the following Sunday after mass. For now, live as brother and sister for a short while and talk with your priest.

God Bless
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Dec 15, '10, 2:00 am
Phemie Phemie is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 27, 2007
Posts: 13,500
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakuryokuso View Post
The Monsignor at my Basilica told me he performs more validations than actual sacramental marriages.
A simple convalidation IS a sacramental marriage - unless one of the couple isn't baptized.

In a simple convalidation, the couple actually gets married in the Church and the ritual itself is no different from what it would have been if they hadn't been legally married first.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Dec 15, '10, 3:52 am
laszlo laszlo is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2010
Posts: 2,511
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

For Catholics only the marriage vow witnessed by a priest with proper jurisdiction is proper marriage, with a very few and well defined exception. Without that the marriage is invalid, and both parties can marry without annulment another person in case of separation. It does not makes any difference weather the other party is baptized or not.

In other hand the marriage vow between non Catholic and non Catholic, or between non Catholic and non baptized person, and even between non baptized couple is valid binding, with the so called Pauline privilege, which means that if one party get baptized he/she has the right to stop the marriage, and marry legally and witnessed by a priest someone else.

I personally believe that the question how God distributes his grace to the couple who consider themselves married is different question and beyond our understanding.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Dec 15, '10, 7:07 am
dans0622 dans0622 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2008
Posts: 1,469
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydavies View Post
I ask this question so as to clarify whether I was living in sin whilst married to my civilly married non-baptised wife of 20 years. We are now separated. ... [i]s a civil marriage between baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful or conversely was it sacramental?
Hello tonydavies,

Based on what you have said here, it appears as though you were not validly married since you did not "get married in the Church." Therefore, the "marriage" could not be sacramental.

The question of sin is something you'd have to discuss with a confessor.

Thanks for your time.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Dec 15, '10, 8:28 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Posts: 37,470
Religion: Catholic no adjectives
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydavies View Post
No I/we didn't have our marriage validated. I did not know I needed to have our marriage validated. Father was aware of the situation I described but he nor anyone ever raised a question about the status of my marriage. I am only now learning about these things through this Catholic site for the first time ever.
the priest may not have known all the facts and made untrue assumptions
your question should be addressed to him in confession
__________________
Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Dec 15, '10, 4:56 pm
tonydavies tonydavies is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 2010
Posts: 85
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geovet View Post
I've had the same basic problem. When I talked with my priest, we had our marriage validated the following Sunday after mass. For now, live as brother and sister for a short while and talk with your priest.

God Bless
We are separated but I take the point; and also I would like to thank everyone for your answers which have clarified the situation for me greatly.

So I understand that as a Catholic I am obliged to marry in the Church or have the marriage convalidated else I would be committing a mortal sin whereas for all others (non-catholics, non-baptised) they are sacramentally married by and through the grace of God if they partcipate in thier own culturally accepted wedding ceremony whatever the case may be.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Dec 15, '10, 6:42 pm
Phemie Phemie is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 27, 2007
Posts: 13,500
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydavies View Post
We are separated but I take the point; and also I would like to thank everyone for your answers which have clarified the situation for me greatly.

So I understand that as a Catholic I am obliged to marry in the Church or have the marriage convalidated else I would be committing a mortal sin whereas for all others (non-catholics, non-baptised) they are sacramentally married by and through the grace of God if they partcipate in thier own culturally accepted wedding ceremony whatever the case may be.
They may be validly married but if they're not baptized they are not sacramentally married since only the baptized can receive a sacrament.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Dec 15, '10, 7:29 pm
vera dicere vera dicere is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Posts: 1,526
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

A friend of mine eloped to a reigstry office with her non-Christian boyfriend. On return home her mother was rather annoyed and the girl was rather shocked to find they weren't married in the eyes of the Church.

So they got it validated by a priest, so yeah, as others have said, its not really valid unless its sacramental.

As for it being "sinful", I dn't think it'd be classed as a mortal sin because you guys weren't in the know abotu it being sinful at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Dec 15, '10, 7:34 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Posts: 37,470
Religion: Catholic no adjectives
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydavies View Post
We are separated but I take the point; and also I would like to thank everyone for your answers which have clarified the situation for me greatly.

So I understand that as a Catholic I am obliged to marry in the Church or have the marriage convalidated else I would be committing a mortal sin whereas for all others (non-catholics, non-baptised) they are sacramentally married by and through the grace of God if they partcipate in thier own culturally accepted wedding ceremony whatever the case may be.
not necessarily
there are other factors
that is why you have to see a priest and lay out all the facts, including your current living situation
if you are separated, for instance, you don't have to do anything, unless you plan to get back together
whether or not your living together was sinful is something you have to ask the priest in confession, not on a forum. We can answer general questions about the law on marriage but have not the compentence to apply that to a specific case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vera dicere View Post
A So they got it validated by a priest, so yeah, as others have said, its not really valid unless its sacramental.

.
again, not necessarily
a Catholic can contract a valid marriage that is not sacramental, if he marries an unbaptized person having received permission to do so and otherwise complying with Church laws on marriage.
__________________
Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Dec 15, '10, 8:02 pm
agapewolf agapewolf is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2006
Posts: 3,624
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is civil marriage of baptised Catholic and non-baptised wife sinful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vera dicere View Post
A friend of mine eloped to a reigstry office with her non-Christian boyfriend. On return home her mother was rather annoyed and the girl was rather shocked to find they weren't married in the eyes of the Church.

So they got it validated by a priest, so yeah, as others have said, its not really valid unless its sacramental.

As for it being "sinful", I dn't think it'd be classed as a mortal sin because you guys weren't in the know abotu it being sinful at the time.
There seems to be a lot of missing the difference of the terms "valid" and "sacramental"

A marriage can be valid, but if one or both are not baptized, it is not sacramental.

A Catholic can marry a non-baptized person (With dispensations/permissions) in the church, and it would only be valid...it would not be sacramental. The catholic is still in good standing and can still go to communion.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8481Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: SueZee
5153CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4429Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: daughterstm
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3864SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3763Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3334Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3288Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3227Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3118For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: SueZee



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:42 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.