Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Dec 18, '10, 10:48 am
InspiritCarol's Avatar
InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Posts: 1,236
Religion: Catholic
Default Can demons "disappear" objects?

My husband asked me to post this. Personally, I don't think it matters in the long run and I prefer to not spend any extra time considering demonic activity; however he's an engineer and wants to know whys and wherefores, etc. SO, here goes.

We have demonic activity (fairly extensively documented). We're working with the Archdiocese on resolving the problem. That's not the issue. What my husband wants to know is, when our yet-to-be-blessed sacred objects disappear, are they taken away, physically, or is it a case of them conveniently being thrown out or something along those lines? This has happened on multiple occasions with such things as St. Benedict medals and prayer cards, etc.

In other words, do demons have the ability to disappear/remove/destroy things; or are they just moving them to strange places in the house?

Please, if you don't believe in demons, that's fine. I'm not looking to convince you or be convinced by you.

Thanks.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Dec 18, '10, 12:46 pm
yosephdaviyd yosephdaviyd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2010
Posts: 284
Religion: Catholic
Red face Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
My husband asked me to post this. Personally, I don't think it matters in the long run and I prefer to not spend any extra time considering demonic activity; however he's an engineer and wants to know whys and wherefores, etc. SO, here goes.

We have demonic activity (fairly extensively documented). We're working with the Archdiocese on resolving the problem. That's not the issue. What my husband wants to know is, when our yet-to-be-blessed sacred objects disappear, are they taken away, physically, or is it a case of them conveniently being thrown out or something along those lines? This has happened on multiple occasions with such things as St. Benedict medals and prayer cards, etc.

In other words, do demons have the ability to disappear/remove/destroy things; or are they just moving them to strange places in the house?

Please, if you don't believe in demons, that's fine. I'm not looking to convince you or be convinced by you.

Thanks.
Hi,

I think we can look at it two ways.

1. According to Scripture, things exist because God's grace allows them to exist; therefore, for some thing to not exist means that God has withdrawn His grace from that thing. So if something is destroyed it is not because some demon has the power, but, rather, because God permitted; and

2. There is the issue of matter and creation - demons cannot create or destroy matter. Again, that falls under the purview of God

So with destroy being all the table, you can look at (1) removing/stealing and (2) illusions.

Will your case ever be made public? I would like to know more details. Thanks!
__________________
==========================
David L. Gray (Yoseph M. Daviyd)

* Visit My Website at: http://www.davidlgray.info/blog/
* Pray the Novena to Fr. Augustus Tolton http://www.toltonnovena.org/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Dec 18, '10, 3:01 pm
Bob Crowley Bob Crowley is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 2,996
Religion: Catholic (Ex Protestant)
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
My husband asked me to post this. Personally, I don't think it matters in the long run and I prefer to not spend any extra time considering demonic activity; however he's an engineer and wants to know whys and wherefores, etc. SO, here goes.

We have demonic activity (fairly extensively documented). We're working with the Archdiocese on resolving the problem. That's not the issue. What my husband wants to know is, when our yet-to-be-blessed sacred objects disappear, are they taken away, physically, or is it a case of them conveniently being thrown out or something along those lines? This has happened on multiple occasions with such things as St. Benedict medals and prayer cards, etc.

In other words, do demons have the ability to disappear/remove/destroy things; or are they just moving them to strange places in the house?

Please, if you don't believe in demons, that's fine. I'm not looking to convince you or be convinced by you.

Thanks.
I'll tell a story about a ghost, but I'm not going to answer the question directly because I don't know. Secondly I assume you've ensured these things aren't happening because of human activity (somebody playing a practical joke, thieves, kids getting into the cupboard etc).

I used to be Presbyterian. The wisest and most prophetic man I've met was my first "Presbyterian" pastor. In fact he was Methodist by training.

If he said he thought something would happen it usually did. At one stage we were talking in his office, and he commented, "I think you'll be doing a cleaning job. You won't like it much, and you won't be doing it for long, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost."

That would have been around 1990/91 since he died in 1992. Now even though I knew him well by that time and knew how accurate his predictions were, I thought that was way over the top. But in 2006 I was doing a cleaning job for a short time, and I admit I didn't like it much (split shifts, travelling 600 kms a week to do the work and so on).

However I was being shown around an old store in Ipswich west of Brisbane, when the young bloke who had been doing the cleaning previously suddenly remarked, "This place is haunted". I said, "What?"

He went on to say that he thought somebody had committed suicide in the 1890's or so. I talked with staff later, and they said the 1960's, which I think is more accurate. Apparently a former manager had hanged himself downstairs.

Anyway he claimed that one night when he was there, all the stock along one complete row of shelves just leaped up and landed on the floor. At other times he said he could push a very heavy buffer with his little finger. Something was pushing it along with him. He said he didn't like being there after 7pm, when it was shut up.

When I was there I used to get quite positive vibes, to be honest. I think that was the suicide's punishment - to be bound to that store till he was released. I finally got around to phoning the priest at Ipswich and told him the story, and asked if he could get a mass said for the suicide. Unfortunately I couldn't give him a name, and I don't know if he took me seriously or not.

But if the young cleaner was right, then the ghost had the ability to make the stock jump off the shelf and push around a 200 or 300 pound buffer just to scare him, thus amusing himself for a few minutes.

When Christ fed the 5000, quite a lot of food was created. This bypassed the E=mc^2 rule, as normally that energy would have needed to be extracted from the local system. At Fatima in 1917, when the ground and clothes of the witnesses suddenly dried after days of rain, scientists have calculated the energy required was of the order of a 2 megaton bomb. They should have all be vaporised, but they weren't.

In other words, the spiritual world or beings have the ability to circumvent the rules of this world if they want to. They don't normally seem to do so, but the latent ability is there.

But if your husband wants to do research on the matter, he's going to have to come to a working arrangement with God or the devil. I'm afraid they're the only ones who can tell him how they do it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Dec 18, '10, 3:05 pm
InspiritCarol's Avatar
InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Posts: 1,236
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yosephdaviyd View Post
Hi,

I think we can look at it two ways.

1. According to Scripture, things exist because God's grace allows them to exist; therefore, for some thing to not exist means that God has withdrawn His grace from that thing. So if something is destroyed it is not because some demon has the power, but, rather, because God permitted; and

2. There is the issue of matter and creation - demons cannot create or destroy matter. Again, that falls under the purview of God
I wasn't even remotely considering destroying matter. Oh my, no. That would give them WAY more credit than they deserve. Breaking things... that's something else entirely.

I'm embarrassed to say that I guess we watched too much sci-fi growing up, because the idea of moving something to another "dimension"/plane-of-existence seems all to easily believed. Silly though it may be when looked at practically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosephdaviyd View Post
So with destroy being all the table, you can look at (1) removing/stealing and (2) illusions.
Your idea of illusions rings very true on a strange level. After six years of dealing with these things, my husband and I only just recently noticed that there were certain things we had an uncanny aversion to. Sort of like we weren't supposed to look certain places or do certain things like pray (for example). We had major breakthroughs lately and have been able to look places we had been heretofore, for want of a better word, apathetic to, and found some very disturbing things. We're learning to recognize apathy as a real tool of evil. Seriously. We didn't find our lost things, but I can certainly confirm this type of illusion as demonic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosephdaviyd View Post
Will your case ever be made public? I would like to know more details. Thanks!
Definitely not. Sorry. Not only are we very private people, but I firmly believe there is way too much casual fascination with these sorts of things. Better to look to scripture than waste time seeking truth from us common folk. I reserve the right to pipe in now and again if I notice bad advice being distributed; but it seems like there are a lot of good people out there already correcting bad theology. The very best advice I can give is to pray and pray, then pray more.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Dec 18, '10, 3:23 pm
MtnDwellar MtnDwellar is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2009
Posts: 2,203
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yosephdaviyd View Post
Hi,

I think we can look at it two ways.

1. According to Scripture, things exist because God's grace allows them to exist; therefore, for some thing to not exist means that God has withdrawn His grace from that thing. So if something is destroyed it is not because some demon has the power, but, rather, because God permitted; and

2. There is the issue of matter and creation - demons cannot create or destroy matter. Again, that falls under the purview of God

So with destroy being all the table, you can look at (1) removing/stealing and (2) illusions.

Will your case ever be made public? I would like to know more details. Thanks!
Your argument seems logical and intuitively valid. But it's wrong.

Demons can make things disappear. What happens to them when they are gone is anyone's guess. They vanish. I took pictures while things were disappearing. From photograph to photograph items are either moved or gone. The ones that are gone were never seen again.

They can also make objects appear. Physical, solid, tangible, never seen before, objects can materialize. They are not moved from one location to another, unless you allow for solid objects to pass through solid walls.

They seem to violate the laws of conventional physics. Conservation of matter is out the window. I am left to consider Einstein's relationships between energy and matter. Perhaps demons can convert one to the other.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Dec 18, '10, 6:41 pm
yosephdaviyd yosephdaviyd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2010
Posts: 284
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnDwellar View Post
Your argument seems logical and intuitively valid. But it's wrong.

Demons can make things disappear. What happens to them when they are gone is anyone's guess. They vanish. I took pictures while things were disappearing. From photograph to photograph items are either moved or gone. The ones that are gone were never seen again.

They can also make objects appear. Physical, solid, tangible, never seen before, objects can materialize. They are not moved from one location to another, unless you allow for solid objects to pass through solid walls.

They seem to violate the laws of conventional physics. Conservation of matter is out the window. I am left to consider Einstein's relationships between energy and matter. Perhaps demons can convert one to the other.
Thanks Mtn - we don't disagree at all. I agree that they can make things disappear - meaning: make things not appear to be visible to the senses any longer, but whether can they make something out of nothing or turn some thing into no thing - I am not convinced of that.
__________________
==========================
David L. Gray (Yoseph M. Daviyd)

* Visit My Website at: http://www.davidlgray.info/blog/
* Pray the Novena to Fr. Augustus Tolton http://www.toltonnovena.org/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Dec 18, '10, 9:08 pm
InspiritCarol's Avatar
InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Posts: 1,236
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnDwellar View Post
Your argument seems logical and intuitively valid. But it's wrong.

Demons can make things disappear. What happens to them when they are gone is anyone's guess. They vanish. I took pictures while things were disappearing. From photograph to photograph items are either moved or gone. The ones that are gone were never seen again.

They can also make objects appear. Physical, solid, tangible, never seen before, objects can materialize. They are not moved from one location to another, unless you allow for solid objects to pass through solid walls.

They seem to violate the laws of conventional physics. Conservation of matter is out the window. I am left to consider Einstein's relationships between energy and matter. Perhaps demons can convert one to the other.
Wow. Hmmm.

I always figured you couldn't catch this stuff on film. I have learned otherwise with my experiences also. I wonder if it's because we have no intention of ever showing this footage to anyone outside those directly involved in assisting us. ...
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Dec 18, '10, 9:34 pm
InspiritCarol's Avatar
InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Posts: 1,236
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I'll tell a story about a ghost, but I'm not going to answer the question directly because I don't know. Secondly I assume you've ensured these things aren't happening because of human activity (somebody playing a practical joke, thieves, kids getting into the cupboard etc).
Changed all the locks, got a VERY big dog and have video surveillance. Kids are too little to reach the things we're talking about, even with step-stools, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I used to be Presbyterian. The wisest and most prophetic man I've met was my first "Presbyterian" pastor. In fact he was Methodist by training.
I absolutely love having long theological discussions with the local Presbyterian Pastor. He was a pall bearer at my dad's funeral and I wouldn't hesitate to call him wise and sincere. He is, sadly misguided on some points, but I'm shocked at how similar their beliefs are to ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
If he said he thought something would happen it usually did. At one stage we were talking in his office, and he commented, "I think you'll be doing a cleaning job. You won't like it much, and you won't be doing it for long, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost."
What an odd thing to hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
When I was there I used to get quite positive vibes, to be honest. I think that was the suicide's punishment - to be bound to that store till he was released.
This is not sound theology. Not that I'm any expert on this matter. Purgatory is not in our physical world, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I finally got around to phoning the priest at Ipswich and told him the story, and asked if he could get a mass said for the suicide. Unfortunately I couldn't give him a name, and I don't know if he took me seriously or not.
It's certainly easy to say a Mass for someone regardless of knowledge of name. God knows who is being referred to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
When Christ fed the 5000, ... At Fatima in 1917, ...In other words, the spiritual world or beings have the ability to circumvent the rules of this world if they want to. They don't normally seem to do so, but the latent ability is there.
No. The significant point to note here is that God, only God can create something from nothing, and perform miracles of such magnitude that only a fool would deny His magnificence. The chicanery and silly, albeit unsettling tricks that demons have to resort to is incomparably insignificant in comparison to the wonders of our God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
But if your husband wants to do research on the matter, he's going to have to come to a working arrangement with God or the devil. I'm afraid they're the only ones who can tell him how they do it.
Yikes. I trust this was tongue in cheek; but I am a bit apprehensive about even joking about such things. As the devil is the Father of Lies, seeking knowledge from him is not only completely impractical, it's well, downright blasphemous. But you did hit the nail on the head: Pilot asked Jesus "what is truth?" Well, I guess there are just some things we weren't meant to know and that's just fine by me. It IS kind of nice to hear what others have observed in their personal experiences, though.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Dec 18, '10, 9:59 pm
Bob Crowley Bob Crowley is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 2,996
Religion: Catholic (Ex Protestant)
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
What an odd thing to hear.

This is not sound theology. Not that I'm any expert on this matter. Purgatory is not in our physical world, though.

No. The significant point to note here is that God, only God can create something from nothing, and perform miracles of such magnitude that only a fool would deny His magnificence. The chicanery and silly, albeit unsettling tricks that demons have to resort to is incomparably insignificant in comparison to the wonders of our God.

Yikes. I trust this was tongue in cheek; but I am a bit apprehensive about even joking about such things. As the devil is the Father of Lies, seeking knowledge from him is not only completely impractical, it's well, downright blasphemous. But you did hit the nail on the head: Pilot asked Jesus "what is truth?" Well, I guess there are just some things we weren't meant to know and that's just fine by me. It IS kind of nice to hear what others have observed in their personal experiences, though.
I've snipped a bit from your reply.

My first comment - we don't know what form purgatory takes. It may partially involve our world. I'd assume most of the time it doesn't, but after my experience I for one think ghosts do exists, whatever they are. And the logical explanation for this one was that of the managerial suicide. If "the Lord just wanted me to hear about a ghost", then there was a reason. I believe the reason was to get a mass said for him, if nobody else was going to do so. Interesting, because at the time the pastor said it, I wasn't even a Catholic. I didn't become Catholic till around 1996 or 97, and the cleaning episode with the ghost was another ten years away even after that.

I quoted the feeding of the 5000 and the Fatima experience as they were "spiritually" caused. Obviously in those cases God was the direct author. But since matter is mostly empty space (remember the old model of a nucleus with electrons whizzing around at comparatively vast distances from it), I don't know that other spiritual beings would necessarily be precluded from creating matter.

And it was tongue in cheek....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Dec 22, '10, 1:55 am
BluesPicker's Avatar
BluesPicker BluesPicker is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2007
Posts: 1,184
Religion: Catholic, Loyal to the Pope
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

" Fr. Fortea defines natural, preternatural, and supernatural actions. Creation is an activity that only God can perform.

Natural: is the action which is proper to the structure of nature. When we speak of nature, we are referring the nature of the material universe.

Preternatural: is the action which goes beyond the structure of the nature of the material universe. The fruit of the action of an angelical or demoniacal nature is said to be preternatural. The word comes from "praeter naturam", beyond nature.

Supernatural: is the action which goes beyond any created nature. This form of activity belongs only to God.Material nature can bring about surprising things, but it will always be according the the laws of the material cosmos. The devils can levitate an object in the air, transform something instantaneously, etc. They can do things which go beyond the possibilities of the material world, but they cannot go beyond the laws of their angelical natures, because they cannot do everything. They cannot do everything even in the material world. God, however, can create an organ from nothing; a devil cannot.

These differences are also valid concerning those things that happen in our soul. For example, a beautiful scenery can remind me of God's beauty, which is something natural. While an angel or devil que send inspirations directly to my mind, God goes beyond that, since he can send spiritual graces (repentance, thanksgiving, etc.) to the most inner recesses of my spirit, bringing about radical changes in a split second. All workings of grace are supernatural. And grace is always sent directly by God."
__________________
"Sacrifice for sinners and repeat many times, especially when you make a sacrifice: O my Jesus, this is out of love for you, for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary!"


BluesPicker

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Dec 22, '10, 2:53 am
MtnDwellar MtnDwellar is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2009
Posts: 2,203
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

That is a good explanation, Blues.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Dec 22, '10, 11:57 am
InspiritCarol's Avatar
InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Posts: 1,236
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Can demons "disappear" objects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesPicker View Post
" Fr. Fortea defines .... All workings of grace are supernatural. And grace is always sent directly by God."
VERY well put. Thanks a lot.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality

Bookmarks

Tags
demonic, demons

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8039Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Mary Virginia
4828CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
4292Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: FootStool
4027OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: fencersmother
3812SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3373Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3184Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: libralion
3149Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
2962For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: SERVENT FOR GOD
2698Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:02 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2013, Catholic Answers.