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  #1  
Old Dec 19, '10, 11:11 am
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Fledgling Fledgling is offline
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Default What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

When is divorce and annulment acceptable?

I know someone (Catholic) dealing with spousal abuse. They have attended counseling and tried to reconcile over the last 2 years but the abuse has not stopped.

She refuses to request a divorce due to the rules of the Church.

I need info on what grounds is divorce and annulment acceptable, if any.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old Dec 19, '10, 11:27 am
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CEM5 CEM5 is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
When is divorce and annulment acceptable?

I know someone (Catholic) dealing with spousal abuse. They have attended counseling and tried to reconcile over the last 2 years but the abuse has not stopped.

She refuses to request a divorce due to the rules of the Church.

I need info on what grounds is divorce and annulment acceptable, if any.

Thanks.
It is something only the tribunal of the Church can answer for each "case" is individual. Before an annulment can be requested, a civil divorce must be obtained.

The Church will never say it is required that a couple stay married when one abuses another! That is unacceptable and it appears the husband is not changing. Witnesses who knew the couple before and after the wedding will be required so the Church can render an informed decision of whether this was ever a "marriage". Marriage and having a wedding are not the same thing. The wedding is a ceremony, whereas a marriage is a sacred union where the couple is united (by God - the Priest only says the words) and the couple has full understanding of what this entails. A husband is not supposed to abuse his wife -- he is to love her as his own body and be subject to Christ and be as Christ is to His Bride, the Church: that means the husband is to serve and love his wife and even be willing to die for her just as Christ died for His Bride the Church.

In my humble opinion, and it is just my own, I think the abused spouse would have no problem attaining an annulment. She needs to get out of that marriage for the abuse will only escalate, and should they have children, it will carry over to them - guarnateed to happen!! (If the husband doesn't truly repent and change - and that change has to come from him accepting that he is the problem and needs the help. Many times these abusers go to counciling and just "play the game" - with no intention to change and instead, place blame for their behaviour on everyone else but themself.)

blessings,
CEM
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  #3  
Old Dec 19, '10, 11:27 am
CSJ CSJ is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

For starters, divorce and annulment are two different things. As far as I know, the Church does not recognize divorce - should the spouse wish to remarry, but it will grant an annulment if it is determined that the marriage was never valid. A divorce is granted by the governing body (i.e. state) in order to "end" a marriage. In the Church's eyes however, a valid marriage is valid til death do them part. An annulment is a ruling by the Church that states that all of the conditions necessary to enter the Sacrament of Marriage were not met, thereby making the marriage invalid. It is a lengthy and diligent process because the Church firmly believes that "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder."

I would recommend that your friend seek shelter because her spouse may become increasingly abusive once she does decide to leave. I am fully convinced of reconciliation, but I would never condone that a person remain in an abusive situation. Abuse will almost always escalate and it is not safe to remain with such a person until they can resolve their issues.

I would recommend that your friend speak with her priest and see what recourse she has. Hopefully, she has local family members or a woman's shelter that she can seek safety there. It may also be wise to alert the local authorities. God Bless,

CSJ
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  #4  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

The husband is not Catholic.......So the marriage isn't valid according to the Church to my understanding.
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  #5  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:13 pm
Dsivanish Dsivanish is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

About what Fledgling just said, she wouldnt have to get an annullment, but just documentation that says shes free to marry again in the Church, and of course to live as a non-married person until then. Its called a Pauline Privilege. Im going through it myself.
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  #6  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:24 pm
Just Lurking Just Lurking is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

See here for the USCCB on domestic violence.
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  #7  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:36 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
When is divorce and annulment acceptable?
Divorce and nullity are two different things.

The Church recognizes that there are times when people need to physically separate to protect themselves even if it includes civil divorce. See below:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P45.HTM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
I know someone (Catholic) dealing with spousal abuse. They have attended counseling and tried to reconcile over the last 2 years but the abuse has not stopped.

She refuses to request a divorce due to the rules of the Church.
She should go talk to her priest. From the Catechism:

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
I need info on what grounds is divorce and annulment acceptable, if any.
Divorce and annulment are not the same thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
The husband is not Catholic.......So the marriage isn't valid according to the Church to my understanding.
This is not necessarily true. A Catholic can validly marry a non-Catholic.

She needs to go talk to her priest.
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #8  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:46 pm
Catholic1954 Catholic1954 is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
The husband is not Catholic.......So the marriage isn't valid according to the Church to my understanding.
One party not being Catholic does not automatically make the marriage invalid. There are many, many other factors to be considered before the Church declares a marriage invalid. There is lots of paperwork to be filled out and lots of interviews to be conducted, and then the tribunal will evaluate all of the evidence and information and make a decision. An anullment is based on the state of mind of each party at the time of the wedding. I know you are concerned for your friend, but it does not sound like she is ready at this time to divorce her abusive husband. You can strongly encourge her to seek the advice of her parish priest, he will be in the best position to guide her through this sad situation.
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  #9  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:49 pm
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Fledgling Fledgling is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

I know divorce and annulment aren't the same thing.......I was asking 2 question in one with the word "and" thrown in there.

She has spoken to her Priest. Her Priest has been providing spiritual counseling.

He keeps telling her to try and forgive him and reconcile which is why she refuses to divorce him.
----------------------------

So, the Catholic Church does not tolerate spousal abuse and if necessary to protect the one being abused divorce in permitted......Then complete annulment of the marriage after.

That's what I've gathered from you guys post and links.

Thanks for the info.
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  #10  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:54 pm
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Would getting married at the court house be considered valid to the Church?
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  #11  
Old Dec 19, '10, 12:58 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
She has spoken to her Priest. Her Priest has been providing spiritual counseling. He keeps telling her to try and forgive him and reconcile which is why she refuses to divorce him.
That is unfortunate. Perhaps the priest does not have all the facts about the abuse. Abused women often whitewash the situation or make excuses.

She does not have to stay with an abusive husband.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
So, the Catholic Church does not tolerate spousal abuse and if necessary to protect the one being abused divorce in permitted......Then complete annulment of the marriage after. That's what I've gathered from you guys post and links.
You have gathered wrongly.

No one has stated that there can be a "complete annulment of the marriage after." This simply isn't true. Divorce does not lead to an annulment. If her marriage is valid, she can civilly divorce him to protect herself, but she would not be free to marry anyone else if her marriage is valid.

The marriage might be valid. That is something that would have to be investigated.
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Pax, ke

ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #12  
Old Dec 19, '10, 1:01 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
Would getting married at the court house be considered valid to the Church?
That depends. A Catholic can get permission to marry a non-Catholic outside of Catholic form. So, it depends upon whether or not she received the proper permissions. Also, if she initially married invalidly, she might have gotten a convalidation of the marriage later.

Details are important.

If she married outside the Church then I don't get why she's concerned about what the Church thinks of divorce-- marrying outside the Church is a sin itself. She isn't even married to him from the Church's standpoint if she didn't marry within the guidelines of Catholic law on marriage.
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Pax, ke

ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #13  
Old Dec 19, '10, 1:02 pm
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Fledgling Fledgling is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
You have gathered wrongly.

No one has stated that there can be a "complete annulment of the marriage after." This simply isn't true. Divorce does not lead to an annulment. If her marriage is valid, she can civilly divorce him to protect herself, but she would not be free to marry anyone else if her marriage is valid.

Dsivanish said she is going through an annulment at the moment.

If there are witnesses that can prove the marriage was abusive according to that one link annulment can be justified.





The marriage might be valid. That is something that would have to be investigated.
.......................
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  #14  
Old Dec 19, '10, 1:03 pm
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Fledgling Fledgling is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
That depends. A Catholic can get permission to marry a non-Catholic outside of Catholic form. So, it depends upon whether or not she received the proper permissions. Also, if she initially married invalidly, she might have gotten a convalidation of the marriage later.

Details are important.

If she married outside the Church then I don't get why she's concerned about what the Church thinks of divorce-- marrying outside the Church is a sin itself. She isn't even married to him from the Church's standpoint if she didn't marry within the guidelines of Catholic law on marriage.
She's concerned because she recently came back to the Church.
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  #15  
Old Dec 19, '10, 1:10 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: What Are The Grounds For Divorce and Annulment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
Dsivanish said she is going through an annulment at the moment.
Which doesn't have anything to do with your friend's situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
If there are witnesses that can prove the marriage was abusive according to that one link annulment can be justified.
This isn't accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fledgling View Post
She's concerned because she recently came back to the Church.
Sounds like maybe it's time for her to lay out ALL the facts to the priest including the fact that she didn't marry this man validly in the Church. I can't imagine a priest telling a woman who is (a) not validly married and (b) being abused to stay with the man who is (a) not her valid husband and (b) an abuser.

Sounds like she needs to give the priest all the facts.
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Pax, ke

ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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