Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Dec 21, '10, 2:49 pm
SteveVH's Avatar
SteveVH SteveVH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 6,759
Religion: Catholic
Default LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

As I was reading through Genesis (Chapter 6) the name "Nephilim" really stuck out in my mind. I really have no idea if these two terms are related, but it sure seems that they could be. Do any of you know the origin of the name "Nephi" ?

Thanks.
__________________
"Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more." - St. Francis of Assisi
  #2  
Old Dec 21, '10, 3:03 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 7,536
Religion: Catholic, Tiber Swim Team Class of 2005
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

I'm not a LDS, but I would say no. "Nephilim" is a Hebrew plural; the singular (from which derivative words would be formed) is "niphal."

As to the origin of the name "Nephi," LDSs will deny this, but I believe it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.

DaveBj
__________________
Author of The Children of the Maker, Kindle Edition
  #3  
Old Dec 21, '10, 3:10 pm
flyonthewall flyonthewall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: September 11, 2010
Posts: 706
Religion: LDS
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
I'm not a LDS, but I would say no. "Nephilim" is a Hebrew plural; the singular (from which derivative words would be formed) is "niphal."

As to the origin of the name "Nephi," LDSs will deny this, but I believe it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.

DaveBj
You are correct, LDS will not agree with you on the origin of the name Nephi.
I would say the origin of the name Nephi came when he was born and his father said...I think I will call him "Nephi".
  #4  
Old Dec 21, '10, 3:21 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 7,536
Religion: Catholic, Tiber Swim Team Class of 2005
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonthewall View Post
You are correct, LDS will not agree with you on the origin of the name Nephi.
I would say the origin of the name Nephi came when he was born and his father said...I think I will call him "Nephi".
__________________
Author of The Children of the Maker, Kindle Edition
  #5  
Old Dec 21, '10, 7:44 pm
SteveVH's Avatar
SteveVH SteveVH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 6,759
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
I'm not a LDS, but I would say no. "Nephilim" is a Hebrew plural; the singular (from which derivative words would be formed) is "niphal."

As to the origin of the name "Nephi," LDSs will deny this, but I believe it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.

DaveBj
I only wondered if Joseph Smith stumbled upon this and thought it sounded biblical and was not aware that the Nephilim were known for polygamy, as descendants of the line of Cain.
__________________
"Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more." - St. Francis of Assisi
  #6  
Old Dec 21, '10, 7:45 pm
SteveVH's Avatar
SteveVH SteveVH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 6,759
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonthewall View Post
You are correct, LDS will not agree with you on the origin of the name Nephi.
I would say the origin of the name Nephi came when he was born and his father said...I think I will call him "Nephi".
Nice!
__________________
"Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more." - St. Francis of Assisi
  #7  
Old Dec 22, '10, 12:29 pm
BartBurk BartBurk is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH View Post
As I was reading through Genesis (Chapter 6) the name "Nephilim" really stuck out in my mind. I really have no idea if these two terms are related, but it sure seems that they could be. Do any of you know the origin of the name "Nephi" ?

Thanks.
It's used in the King James Version in the last verse of the first chapter of 2 Maccabees:

Quote:
2 Maccabees 1:36: And Neemias called this thing Naphthar, which is as much as to say, a cleansing: but many men call it Nephi.
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toc...&division=div1
  #8  
Old Dec 22, '10, 12:51 pm
SteveVH's Avatar
SteveVH SteveVH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 6,759
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBurk View Post
It's used in the King James Version in the last verse of the first chapter of 2 Maccabees:

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toc...&division=div1
Thanks for this Bart. I hadn't picked up on that one and was pretty much concentrating on Genesis.
__________________
"Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more." - St. Francis of Assisi
  #9  
Old Dec 23, '10, 8:00 am
benidict benidict is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: October 2, 2009
Posts: 3,999
Religion: Skeptical Catholic/Politically Libertarian
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveVH View Post
I only wondered if Joseph Smith stumbled upon this and thought it sounded biblical and was not aware that the Nephilim were known for polygamy, as descendants of the line of Cain.
interesting. could it be Joseph really did have a visitation by spirits? who appeared as angels of light, and transmitted an ancient error? i only say this, because, the Jehovas witnesses, have the errors of the Nicolations, found in Revelation. and the Adventist, are of the same thread of the Judaizers, that were around early in the apostles ministry. could there truly have been false spirits transmitting "knowledge" during the 1800s, a century of religious confusion, where all three of these movements came about, and in the same area of the united states? just a theory. peace
  #10  
Old Dec 23, '10, 8:14 am
JeanMichel JeanMichel is offline
Banned
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 366
Religion: The Religous thrill me, the Spirit comforts me
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benidict View Post
interesting. could it be Joseph really did have a visitation by spirits? who appeared as angels of light, and transmitted an ancient error? i only say this, because, the Jehovas witnesses, have the errors of the Nicolations, found in Revelation. and the Adventist, are of the same thread of the Judaizers, that were around early in the apostles ministry. could there truly have been false spirits transmitting "knowledge" during the 1800s, a century of religious confusion, where all three of these movements came about, and in the same area of the united states? just a theory. peace
That is a feasible hypothesis. That is the danger of personal revelation...confirming that it came by the Holy Spirit or by one that deceives.
  #11  
Old Dec 23, '10, 3:46 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 7,536
Religion: Catholic, Tiber Swim Team Class of 2005
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

I checked it out in a very comprehensive Bible encyclopedia. It appears that Nephi is derived from the name Nephthai or Nephthar, but the bottom line is that no one knows what any of those meant in the original Hebrew.

DaveBj
__________________
Author of The Children of the Maker, Kindle Edition
  #12  
Old Dec 24, '10, 10:10 am
flyonthewall flyonthewall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: September 11, 2010
Posts: 706
Religion: LDS
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBurk View Post
It's used in the King James Version in the last verse of the first chapter of 2 Maccabees:

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toc...&division=div1
That is interesting, but I doubt that Joseph owned a Catholic Bible that included that book.
  #13  
Old Dec 24, '10, 10:31 am
Jerusha's Avatar
Jerusha Jerusha is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Posts: 3,379
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonthewall View Post
That is interesting, but I doubt that Joseph owned a Catholic Bible that included that book.
But the Apocrypha were frequently included in the Protestant Bibles at that time. There was inconsistency among Protestants in making that change, led by Luther. Sidney Rigdon and Solomon Spalding almost certainly studied those books. The King James Version (Protestant by nature) originally included the Deuterocanonical books. It might do you good to read I and II Maccabees.
__________________
Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. Luke 6:28


http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/
  #14  
Old Dec 24, '10, 4:29 pm
TracyR TracyR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2010
Posts: 119
Religion: Roman Catholic - finally at peace
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
I'm not a LDS, but I would say no. "Nephilim" is a Hebrew plural; the singular (from which derivative words would be formed) is "niphal."

As to the origin of the name "Nephi," LDSs will deny this, but I believe it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.

DaveBj
Yes, it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.
http://sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/
__________________
Tracy
Wife to Tim for 15 yrs
and Mom to
13
11
7
4
  #15  
Old Dec 24, '10, 7:11 pm
Jerusha's Avatar
Jerusha Jerusha is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Posts: 3,379
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyR View Post
Yes, it came from Joseph Smith's imagination.
http://sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/
I very definitely disagree with this statement.

Recent research has validated an old theory. This theory states that a preacher by the name of Solomon Spalding wrote a story about a migration of Jews to the New World. He read it to his friends and neighbors and family. Their testimonies included a character by the name of Nephi, as well as other events and characters which occurred in the BoM. He sent it to a printing office, but the printer, by the name of Lambdin, wanted money up-front, which Spalding did not have. Another man by the name of Sidney Rigdon stole the manuscript.

After spending time from 1816 (when Spalding died) to 1828 reviewing and revising it, Rigdon, through one of his friends, found a con-man who would be willing to help revise it and take credit for it, by the name of Joseph Smith. Rigdon could not do this, because Spalding's widow was hot on his tracks, suspecting that he was the person who had stolen the manuscript. He many have made a copy, and returned the original to Mrs Spalding.

Oliver Cowdery and Parley Pratt then probably relayed the manuscript between Rigdon's house and JS's house, where JS and his family and friends adapted it. One can see evidence of this in comparing the first half of the book with the second half. Martin Harris had taken the first 116 pages home and showed it to his wife. She got angry that he would be participating in such a blasphemy, and destroyed it. They then had to re-create the beginning of the book. Most of it was by memory, but Rigdon included huge chunks of Isaiah in II Nephi.

After the BoM was published, Rigdon appeared on the scene, and after minimal theatrical objection converted to the new religion, and quickly progressed in the organization.

When Spalding's friends and relatives heard of the book, they raised an unholy stink, because they could recognize it.

If you will read Mosiah and Alma, much of the texture is very similar to I and II Maccabees, and many details came from Fr. Francesco Clavigero's History of Mexico Spalding was very capable of integrating these multiple sources into a parody of the Bible (he was a private nonbeliever). He was very comfortable with writing military narrative, because he was a veteran of the Revolutionary war.

I come from the Nauvoo area. Many people with roots there had ancestors who had met JS. We have a strong tradition of laughing at the very idea that Joseph Smith was capable of writing the BoM. Two non-Mormon authors from that area, Arthur Deming and Thomas Gregg, wrote about this.

Now, there is an option that JS could have written the book with demonic assistance. Many Protestant groups subscribe to that idea. I don't buy it.

Recent word-print studies (search Jockers, Criddle, and Witten) have found plenty of evidence that Rigdon and Spalding made significant contributions to the book.

So, in conclusion, Spalding borrowed many names from the Bible, including the Deuterocanonical books. And Nephi is one of them. If you won't buy the Nephi in Maccabees, a shortened form of Nephilim (children of the gods) from Genesis will do quite well.
__________________
Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. Luke 6:28


http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/
Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8247Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: janiejnb
5013CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4344Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: James_OPL
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3831SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3562Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3223Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3203Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: memphian
3112Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: lewisjoan
3047For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.