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  #1  
Old Dec 22, '10, 1:50 pm
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Faith3Faith Faith3Faith is offline
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Default Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Victims of clerical sex abuse have reacted furiously to Pope Benedict's claim yesterday that paedophilia wasn't considered an “absolute evil” as recently as the 1970s

In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

“It was maintained — even within the realm of Catholic theology — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than' and a ‘worse than'. Nothing is good or bad in itself.”



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...#ixzz18scMX25P
  #2  
Old Dec 22, '10, 2:50 pm
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Perhaps I was under a mistaken impression, but I thought that The Church claims to hold the Eternal Mind of Christ and Eternal Verities. How are these recent situation ethics views of his consistent with that claim? It would be useful to be able to read his whole speech; the article might be truncating things in a way that skews what he really was trying to say.
  #3  
Old Dec 22, '10, 3:04 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Be aware of the source in this case. The Belfast Telegraph is a paper, as it's name suggests, from the north of Ireland. It's very much Unionist in outlook and while it's writers in fairness would oppose any violence acts against Catholics it often carries articles which tend to distrot what Church leaders have to say by cherry picking phrase from complex and lengthy speeches or just using soundbites.
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Old Dec 22, '10, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

as always, the media gets it completely opposite....... *sigh*

Pope Benedict was actually saying the exact opposite of what he is claimed to have said by this newspaper... he was saying that this view should be "resisted". Here it is in context:

Quote:
In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...auguri_en.html
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  #5  
Old Dec 22, '10, 3:22 pm
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Always go to original source, read in context. Here is link. I haven't had time to read it yet and have to log off now but will at first op. And then be back to comment. Peace out.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...auguri_en.html
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  #6  
Old Dec 22, '10, 3:31 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Absolutely sound advice. I am sure the original will say something rather different than The Belfast Telegraph's spin. And indeed it does and to be honest it says something the opposite of what the distorted version of the Belfast Telegraph article would make Pope Benedict out to be saying:-

In the vision of Saint Hildegard, the face of the Church is stained with dust, and this is how we have seen it. Her garment is torn – by the sins of priests. The way she saw and expressed it is the way we have experienced it this year. We must accept this humiliation as an exhortation to truth and a call to renewal. Only the truth saves. We must ask ourselves what we can do to repair as much as possible the injustice that has occurred. We must ask ourselves what was wrong in our proclamation, in our whole way of living the Christian life, to allow such a thing to happen. We must discover a new resoluteness in faith and in doing good. We must be capable of doing penance. We must be determined to make every possible effort in priestly formation to prevent anything of the kind from happening again. This is also the moment to offer heartfelt thanks to all those who work to help victims and to restore their trust in the Church, their capacity to believe her message. In my meetings with victims of this sin, I have also always found people who, with great dedication, stand alongside those who suffer and have been damaged. This is also the occasion to thank the many good priests who act as channels of the Lord’s goodness in humility and fidelity and, amid the devastations, bear witness to the unforfeited beauty of the priesthood.

We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.

In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.
  #7  
Old Dec 22, '10, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

CHRISTMAS GREETINGS
TO THE ROMAN CURIA
Quote:
In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation
The hatred inherent in the outrage over this message by the pope is at the heart of their desire for revisionist historicity.

The roots of de-stigmatizing pedophilia in contemporary society
Quote:
Peter Sprigg, Family Research Council director of Marriage and Family Studies, told CNSNews.com that the movement to de-stigmatize pedophilia within academia can be traced back to Alfred Kinsey in 1948. ...

"Kinsey worked to lower penalties for sex offenders and said he couldn't understand why children were harmed by being sexually touched by adults," Knight continued. "He based this on a series of sex experiments on children as young as 2 months of age. A chapter in Sexual Behavior in the Human Male reports on the molestation of hundreds of boys, with Kinsey concluding that the victims enjoyed the activity."
Prime Time TV 'Objectifies and Fetishizes Young Girls', study says
Quote:
“Certain shows, advertisers, etc. sexualize underage people, which does double damage: it sends a message to youth that their self-worth depends on their sexuality, and provokes inappropriate sexual responses from adults.
The outrage should be properly placed. The overall problem is, and was at the time the pope talks about, ethos. The culture is certainly concerned and more well informed as to the problems involved with sexual contact on the young, but the culture is certainly not at all concerned about sexualizing them. They are a victim in both accounts. Jessica Hahn years ago was victimized by Rev. Jim Bakker but "empowered" herself when appearing in Playboy. This is the ethos we are involving the young in today. The "higher truth" would lead to an ethos of virtue proposed by the Church that the priest victimizers failed to live up to.
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  #8  
Old Dec 22, '10, 3:58 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Ladies and Gents as I said this paper is one with a long and mostly undignified history in this regard. I'm surprised to see it quoted here on a website that is mostly used by Americans. But outside the confines of this forum I've seen this newspaper run articles like this time and time again that are true..... for a given value of truth. As with all the most effective lies they mix the truth up by selectively pulling pieces out of articles or speeches minus their surrounding original context.

It's a paper that has a deep, deep dislike of the Papacy and about the best that can be said is that by the standards of where it is written it at least does not promote violence acts against Catholics. Although is has sometimes been very, very ambigous about whether they were justified historically.
  #9  
Old Dec 22, '10, 6:50 pm
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Faith3Faith Faith3Faith is offline
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

I agree ,..I was imprudent and posted this news article without reading all of what Benedict had said. I apologize. I urge everyone reading this thread to disregard the Title and disregard my original post.
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Old Dec 22, '10, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Apology accepted - might I suggest a solution? This is not to make you feel unduly guilty over the mistake, but it might put it right and encourage others to follow the example of not posting things indiscriminately.

Here's the suggestion - PM the moderators and ask that the thread be removed.
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Old Dec 23, '10, 4:07 am
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica4316 View Post
as always, the media gets it completely opposite....... *sigh*

Pope Benedict was actually saying the exact opposite of what he is claimed to have said by this newspaper... he was saying that this view should be "resisted". Here it is in context:



http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...auguri_en.html
Thanks to Monica for clarifying this, but even before seeing the full text, I was sure the Holy Father was citing those points of view precisely in order to condemn them. It's obvious this Belfast newspaper epitomizes the dishonesty and anti-Catholicism that are so characteristic of the Unionist overlords of the north of Ireland.
  #12  
Old Dec 23, '10, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DOCTORS View Post
Apology accepted - might I suggest a solution? This is not to make you feel unduly guilty over the mistake, but it might put it right and encourage others to follow the example of not posting things indiscriminately.

Here's the suggestion - PM the moderators and ask that the thread be removed.
Why should the thread be removed? I think this is rather important. Because it WILL get around, in the twisted form, and this thread has the truth of the matter in it.

I already saw this mentioned on another (very secular) forum. It's not one I have joined, but I do read it occasionally. Not sure if they had this article from the same source, or if somewhere else has already picked up this "story," but the response was what one would expect. I wonder how long it will be before stuff like this makes it to the "real" media? I appreciate having this thread here, with the real story.
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