Would you consider Pope John Paul II "reckless"?

KaneKatholic · #1 Dec 22, '10, 10:46 pm

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

PiousTemplar · #2 Dec 22, '10, 11:58 pm

Hahaha, seriously dude, keep off the anti-catholic ****.
If you look at it too much you start doubting things, its natural.

Read more on your own faith instead of deliberately putting it at risk.

Tsuwano · #3 Dec 23, '10, 12:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaneKatholic

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

What do you mean by "giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire?" What is "pagan attire" and how does one tell? Is a suit and tie less "pagan" than, say, a Japanese kimono or Papua New Guinean traditional clothing? By "pagan" do you actually mean not Western? To continue, no, I do not think Pope John Paul or Pope Benedict are reckless in their actions or spirituality and certainly do not contradict the Catholic faith by meeting with leaders of other faith traditions.

Patrick Cox · #4 Dec 23, '10, 1:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaneKatholic

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

Our Lord considers each and every person on earth one of his children - not just Catholics. We are called to love people of all faiths and beliefs, not just those who share our belief.

The Popes (both JPII and B16) very much lived/live that example. We do not strive for a divided world - we strive for a united world as far as possible. We strive for a world which shares a desire for peace and mutual respect of each and every person. This means making an effort to get out there and put this goal into practice. Remaining in one's own cocoon will achieve little.

Mother Theresa was another who made no distinction between people of different beliefs - she welcomed and loved children of ALL faiths equally. That is what living the Catholic faith is all about. We do not dilute our own faith and belief by showing respect and love for others... On the contrary, that is what being Catholic should be all about.

I concur with Tsuwano - what is "pagan attire"? The clothing we wear when we recieve communion is of little importance. It is what is in our hearts and minds that matters to God.

Patrick

Dempsey1919 · #5 Dec 23, '10, 5:35 am

Yes I think Pope John Paul's inter-religious and ecumenical activities were reckless. However, I also think Pope John Paul II was a good pope. When I remember his pontificate, I see more good than bad.

Do not visit those websites. The authors misguided and they have an agenda.

Dorothy · #6 Dec 23, '10, 5:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaneKatholic

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

Keep in mind that those who want to bash the Catholic Church will resort to any and all twisting possible to make the Church look bad. They will misrepresent, and tell half truths to get you to accept a different version of what really happened.

Just like those horrid sensationalist newspapers that are on a newstand as you are on the checkout at the food market.
Some people buy and read them, thinking they are true.

melchesidechpio · #7 Dec 23, '10, 5:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaneKatholic

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

put aside the anti Catholic and Sedvaticantist propaganda. Pope John Paul II was great man who was truly touched by the Holy Spirit.

Dempsey1919 · #8 Dec 23, '10, 6:29 am

One thing I would like to ask:

How do we know that the book in the photograph was a Quran? It could have been an Arabic translation of the Gospels.

I would hate to think that Pope John Paul II kissed a copy of the Quran, but I think he may have done this to try and build better relations with Muslims around the world. After all, don't forget that Christians are still killed in Muslim countries. Maybe John Paul kissed the Quran in an attempt to make life easier for Christians in Muslim countries?

JimR-OCDS · #9 Dec 23, '10, 8:05 am

Dempsey

Quote:

One thing I would like to ask:

How do we know that the book in the photograph was a Quran? It could have been an Arabic translation of the Gospels.

Because the Cleric who gave him the book said it was the Quran and the Pope's spokesman confirmed that it was, and that the Pope had kissed it out of respect toward the Cleric.

Pope John Paul II wrote that we should embrace truth's found in non-Catholic religions and not reject them just because they are not Catholic.

Although we don't embrace everything, there are truths in the Koran.

Jim

PatriceA · #10 Dec 23, '10, 8:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaneKatholic

The reason why I ask this is because Im always looking at both anti-catholic and sedevacantist claims and they all point to pictures of JPG kissing qurans and standing side by side with people or leaders of other faiths,(ie the Dalai Lama, or muslim leaders or african mystic leaders)
it has even been said that he told african mystics NOT to abandon their faith because it would offend their ancestors...........I dont know if this is true but there seems to be a disconnect between the catholic view and the world view of JPG
there are so many pictures of both popes JPG and B16
giving communion to people dressed in pagan attire,
it feels as if Im getting mixed messages and it confuses me greatly any help

No I do not think he was reckless. If anything I think he was a great leader in establishing dialogue with those of other faiths, and it is only through dialogue that we can foster respect and peace and maybe begin to heal some of the fractions within our own Catholic faith to bring others back into the fold. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and challenged people when necessary to see all people of all faiths as we all are children of God. We all deserve dignity and kindness. He kissed the quran out of respect because he very much wanted to go to Iraq.

I too would love to know what you mean by "pagan" clothes. Catholics around the world are going to look much different than you or me.

baylee · #11 Dec 23, '10, 6:00 pm

Would St Thomas More have kissed the Quran? Or do you think he would have preferred to get his head cut off?

Dorothy · #12 Dec 23, '10, 6:08 pm

All I know is that Pope John Paul II was a very holy pope, and he was well loved by many.

If, indeed, he did kiss a Koran, than there is something we do not understand as to why he did so. It certainly wasn't because he was trivializing our faith, in which he was very strong in.

I do not understand why a Catholic would be willing to think the worst about Pope John Paul II.

baylee · #13 Dec 23, '10, 6:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorothy

All I know is that Pope John Paul II was a very holy pope, and he was well loved by many.

If, indeed, he did kiss a Koran, than there is something we do not understand as to why he did so. It certainly wasn't because he was trivializing our faith, in which he was very strong in.

I do not understand why a Catholic would be willing to think the worst about Pope John Paul II.

I do not think the worst of the Pope, but this gesture certainly concerns me. It sent/sends the wrong message about the Muslim faith. Just because he was Pope does not mean he didn't/couldn't make mistakes.

baylee · #14 Dec 23, '10, 6:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

Although we don't embrace everything, there are truths in the Koran.

Since the Church teaches that God's revelation ended with the death of the Apostles, the Koran is not true revelation. Why would/should we embrace anything in the Koran?

melchesidechpio · #15 Dec 23, '10, 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by baylee

Since the Church teaches that God's revelation ended with the death of the Apostles, the Koran is not true revelation. Why would/should we embrace anything in the Koran?

It by no means saying we should embrace the Qu'ran. But we should work on improving our relationships with the Muslims. In the same aspect is would also be wrong to burn the Qu'ran as what that minister awhile back was going to do. St. Francis of Assisi wanted to bring peace between Christians and Muslims and he and Brother Leo set out to talk to the Sultan. They faced excommunication with the Church, getting killed among other things. When they did meet the Sultan, they also became mytrs of the faith. Instead they worked on the relationship between the Islam Community and the Christian Community. During this expedition over time the famous prayer of St. Francis "Give me a channel of thy peace" was formed. Pope John Paul II was a very holy person and I am sure his intent was to establish peace among the Islam community and the Christian community in a similar fashion that St. Francis had done in the early 13th century.