Catholicism and Climate Change: The Sequel

[kimmielittle]

Good Stewardship - is what we are called to.

Good Stewardship - isn't dependent on unproven hypothesis or schemes such as AGW

Within this tread, there is much educational resources...

I think, all of us here - Hopes this helps you.

BE Green for the Right Reasons

[LittleSoldier]

Originally Posted by kimmielittle

Good Stewardship - is what we are called to.

Good Stewardship - isn't dependent on unproven hypothesis or schemes such as AGW

Within this tread, there is much educational resources...

I think, all of us here - Hopes this helps you.

BE Green for the Right Reasons

Kimmie, I like your saying: BE GREEN FOR THE RIGHT REASONS!!!

We have a lot of work ahead of us if we want to fix the problems humans have caused in this world. But we need to to do it in the best way possible; with careful plans and research that is relevant and methodologically sound.

[Dakota Roberts]

Even if you disagree with the idea of AGW keep in mind that we still have other kinds of pollution that are horrible, just ask anyone who lived in L.A. before the Clean Air Act...

[kimmielittle]

Originally Posted by LittleSoldier

Kimmie, I like your saying: BE GREEN FOR THE RIGHT REASONS!!!

We have a lot of work ahead of us if we want to fix the problems humans have caused in this world. But we need to to do it in the best way possible; with careful plans and research that is relevant and methodologically sound.

[kimmielittle]

Originally Posted by dakota roberts

even if you disagree with the idea of agw keep in mind that we still have other kinds of pollution that are horrible, just ask anyone who lived in l.a. Before the clean air act...

absolutely

[kimmielittle]

Thank you.... Mr Moderator

[LittleSoldier]

Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts

Even if you disagree with the idea of AGW keep in mind that we still have other kinds of pollution that are horrible, just ask anyone who lived in L.A. before the Clean Air Act...

You're right. I grew up in the megapolis of L.A. Sometimes the smog was so bad it hurt to breathe. I avoid L.A. like the plague now. The Inland Empire is even worse. When I flew into Ontario Airport the sky was clear and beautiful and suddenly a blanket of darkish brown showed up.

And then there are the pollutants that don't show up in the air so we don't know they're there but we breathe them in anyway. Even Palm Springs and the high deserts have serious smog problems now.

[LittleSoldier]

This is on-topic although it may not appear to be. Those of us who live in Oregon have been told many times that there is a blanket of plastic grocery bags that:

(1) forms a bridge from Oregon across the Pacific Ocean to Asia (although the location of this supposed mass of trash differs according to different news articles); and
(2) forms an island in the Pacific Ocean that is twice as big as the State of Texas (or even bigger!! )

"Researchers are warning of a new blight on the ocean: a swirl of confetti-like plastic debris stretching over thousands of square miles in a remote expanse of the Atlantic Ocean.

"The floating garbage - hard to spot from the surface and spun together by a vortex of currents - was documented by two groups of scientists who trawled the sea between scenic Bermuda and Portugal's mid-Atlantic Azores islands.

"The studies describe a soup of micro-particles similar to the "great Pacific garbage patch," a phenomenon discovered a decade ago between Hawaii and California that researchers say is likely to exist in other places around the globe."

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-04-1...-patch-plastic

The mass has been described as "a giant gloop," the "Eastern Garbage Patch," and the "Plastic Vortex."

http://www.pr2live.com/2009/05/27/se...size-of-texas/

Are local and state lawmakers proposing bans or deposits/fees for plastic bags? Yes.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Fred...-98983434.html

http://www.oregonbusiness.com/high-f...n-plastic-bags

Some grocery store chains are supporting proposals which would force consumers to pay for plastic (and sometimes paper) bags. Is this support because the owners are concerned about the environment? Maybe. But there's another reason for supporting fees and that is ka-ching!!

"Grocery stores typically go through 190,000 paper sacks a year, passing the cost — 4 to 8 cents — along to consumers. If the use of paper bags double, as the industry predicts it will in the short term, a grocery store could end up making $20,000 a year off the sale of bags."

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...rocery-bag.csp

There is consensus that plastic dumped into the ocean impacts the environment.

"The biggest plastic bag drawback: They're littered more often, fly away from landfills and garbage cans and often end up in the ocean, where plastic makes up the vast majority of floating debris. There they fill the gullets of sea turtles that mistake them for jellyfish, entangle sea birds and contribute to the garbage gyre in the North Pacific."

http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...stic_bags.html

But does this mass of plastic grocery bags in the ocean really exist? Perhaps not.

"Have you heard of the trash patch? It's a fabled mass of plastic some say is twice the size of Texas. Research from an OSU assistant professor shows that tale is more fiction than fact."

http://www.kval.com/news/local/11304...ef=morestories

So plastic grocery bags may be outlawed and we're being encouraged to use those cloth bags that can be used over and over. Now it turns out that the size of the plastic bag "island" may be 1% of the size of Texas and the use of "environmentally friendly" cloth bags may lead to the consumption of contaminated foods.

http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...ou_sick_p.html

And what of paper sacks? Are they OK? Well, maybe not.

"With paper bags, the biggest environmental challenge is the amount of energy it takes to make them, Allaway said. So banning plastic bags in favor of paper "wouldn't necessarily be a win for the environment in the big picture.
"It's true paper bags biodegrade, and most plastic bags don't. Degrading is a plus if a bag is littered, Allaway said, but a pitfall in a landfill, where it produces methane, a greenhouse gas."

(My comment: And THAT leads to air pollutions and global warming, right? )

http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...stic_bags.html

My conclusion is that plastic bags, paper sacks, and cloth grocery bags should all be outlawed and we should all carry our groceries in our bare hands.

Or we should buy reusable plastic bags and wash them thoroughly with hot water and soap. Of course water is very expensive in Oregon (bet you didn't know that! You'd think that in a state that has an average rainfall of over 27" per year water would be cheap. Uh uh. )

And what of those who actually use plastic grocery bags instead of throwing them into the ocean or littering the forests and towns and cities? I have six cats. Count 'em. Six. Kimberlina, KapuKahiNene, Cranberry, Kaelan, Angel, and JordanJade. That means I have an inordinate amount of kitty roca which must be discarded in some way. Hence, the plastic bag. I can't flush kitty roca. I could allow my dog to eat it; she would enjoy herself immensely as she is a big fan of kitty roca. But I have the feeling that this isn't a good solution.

My point? Before taking ANY action it should be determined if a problem actually exists and consensus should be reached on the solutions to that problem, instead of running around all loopy crying "The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

I am an avid environmentalist, Human beings, those animals who supposedly have reasoning capabilities, have managed to turn this earth into a polluted mess. Animal and plant species are being exterminated because of greed, a lack of understanding, and pure laziness. This HAS to change.

[Monte RCMS]

Thank you, Mods for "The Sequel".

And, in appreciation, please visit here and sign on for your own e-subscription.

This issue of TWTW just arrived and is really fascinating.

http://www.sepp.org/twtwfiles/2011/T...0to%20Fred.pdf

[Monte RCMS]

Originally Posted by LittleSoldier

Or we should buy reusable plastic bags and wash them thoroughly with hot water and soap. Of course water is very expensive in Oregon (bet you didn't know that! You'd think that in a state that has an average rainfall of over 27" per year water would be cheap. Uh uh. )

A few years ago, we drove through Oregon and Washington and were dazzled by all the water they have.

Apparently, however, it is soooo tightly controlled by the government that most of it ends up in the ocean.

If you have "water rights" apparently you can pump a little bit of it out of the river.

I bought a coffee mug at one of the dams visitor centers; couldn't tell you which dam; they didn't have their name on the coffee mug; they had a picture of a fish.

BUT, they did employ a staff of people who counted the fish that were transiting the dam going upstream. They counted the fish manually, one at a time.

[LittleSoldier]

Originally Posted by Monte RCMS

A few years ago, we drove through Oregon and Washington and were dazzled by all the water they have.

Apparently, however, it is soooo tightly controlled by the government that most of it ends up in the ocean.

If you have "water rights" apparently you can pump a little bit of it out of the river.

I bought a coffee mug at one of the dams visitor centers; couldn't tell you which dam; they didn't have their name on the coffee mug; they had a picture of a fish.

BUT, they did employ a staff of people who counted the fish that were transiting the dam going upstream. They counted the fish manually, one at a time.

The salmon industry is one of the major industries in Oregon. In the past several years farm-raised salmon have appeared. They aren't as popular as wild salmon and are lighter in color. Some now have dye added. They are actually dying the fish. But they can't fix the taste. Only wild-caught salmon taste good. I've never eaten farm-raised salmon but from what I've heard it's not so good. And the federal government wanted to add the numbers of farm-raised salmon to the wild salmon so that wild salmon wouldn't be considered endangered. Or so I was told, but then I was also told there was a bridge of plastic bags stretching across the Pacific Ocean.

Wild salmon are endangered or close to it. So the state has tried to do everything possible to help wild salmon swim upstream to spawn. It was probably a picture of a salmon that you had. But counting them manually? Weird. I know they put in "ladders" to help salmon move upstream. But I think there might be a more accurate and more cost-effective way to count salmon. That's the government for ya.

And I would bet that your mug was made in China.

[John21652]

Originally Posted by LittleSoldier

This is on-topic although it may not appear to be. Those of us who live in Oregon have been told many times that there is a blanket of plastic grocery bags that...

...This HAS to change.

Bio-degradable plastic bags have been around for a long time.

Why aren't people demanding them?

[John21652]

Originally Posted by Monte RCMS

A few years ago, we drove through Oregon and Washington and were dazzled ...

...BUT, they did employ a staff of people who counted the fish that were transiting the dam going upstream. They counted the fish manually, one at a time.

This is a common tactic employed by governments around the world who want to 'seem' to be green.

Those fish counters thus employed not only soak up some unemployment, but they are newly created "green" jobs.

Now that looks fabulous when you want to "seem" to be green.
How it helps the fish may be an entirely different matter, but "seeming" is now a very important part of being "green".

[kimmielittle]

On Plastic eaters:

WCI student isolates microbe that lunches on plastic bags

Posted by stephcolin on Sep-1-2009


Image by D’Arcy Norman via Flickr

Karen Kawawada
RECORD STAFF
WATERLOO
Getting ordinary plastic bags to rot away like banana peels would be an environmental dream come true.

After all, we produce 500 billion a year worldwide and they take up to 1,000 years to decompose. They take up space in landfills, litter our streets and parks, pollute the oceans and kill the animals that eat them.

Now a Waterloo teenager has found a way to make plastic bags degrade faster — in three months, he figures.

Daniel Burd’s project won the top prize at the Canada-Wide Science Fair in Ottawa. He came back with a long list of awards, including a $10,000 prize, a $20,000 scholarship, and recognition that he has found a practical way to help the environment.

Daniel, a 16-year-old Grade 11 student at Waterloo Collegiate Institute, got the idea for his project from everyday life.

“Almost every week I have to do chores and when I open the closet door, I have this avalanche of plastic bags falling on top of me,” he said. “One day, I got tired of it and I wanted to know what other people are doing with these plastic bags.”
The answer: not much. So he decided to do something himself.

He knew plastic does eventually degrade, and figured microorganisms must be behind it. His goal was to isolate the microorganisms that can break down plastic — not an easy task because they don’t exist in high numbers in nature.

First, he ground plastic bags into a powder. Next, he used ordinary household chemicals, yeast and tap water to create a solution that would encourage microbe growth. To that, he added the plastic powder and dirt. Then the solution sat in a shaker at 30 degrees.

After three months of upping the concentration of plastic-eating microbes, Burd filtered out the remaining plastic powder and put his bacterial culture into three flasks with strips of plastic cut from grocery bags. As a control, he also added plastic to flasks containing boiled and therefore dead bacterial culture.

Six weeks later, he weighed the strips of plastic. The control strips were the same. But the ones that had been in the live bacterial culture weighed an average of 17 per cent less.

That wasn’t good enough for Burd. To identify the bacteria in his culture, he let them grow on agar plates and found he had four types of microbes. He tested those on more plastic strips and found only the second was capable of significant plastic degradation.

Next, Burd tried mixing his most effective strain with the others. He found strains one and two together produced a 32 per cent weight loss in his plastic strips. His theory is strain one helps strain two reproduce.

Tests to identify the strains found strain two was Sphingomonas bacteria and the helper was Pseudomonas.

A researcher in Ireland has found Pseudomonas is capable of degrading polystyrene, but as far as Burd and his teacher Mark Menhennet know — and they’ve looked — Burd’s research on polyethelene plastic bags is a first.

Next, Burd tested his strains’ effectiveness at different temperatures, concentrations and with the addition of sodium acetate as a ready source of carbon to help bacteria grow.

At 37 degrees and optimal bacterial concentration, with a bit of sodium acetate thrown in, Burd achieved 43 per cent degradation within six weeks.

The plastic he fished out then was visibly clearer and more brittle, and Burd guesses after six more weeks, it would be gone. He hasn’t tried that yet.
To see if his process would work on a larger scale, he tried it with five or six whole bags in a bucket with the bacterial culture. That worked too.

Industrial application should be easy, said Burd. “All you need is a fermenter . . . your growth medium, your microbes and your plastic bags.”.................

http://woohooreport.com/2009/09/wci-...-plastic-bags/

His goal was to isolate the microorganisms that can break down plastic — not an easy task because they don’t exist in high numbers in nature.

The question: What happens when we OVER produce these microorganisms?

[Monte RCMS]

Originally Posted by LittleSoldier

The salmon industry is one of the major industries in Oregon. In the past several years farm-raised salmon have appeared. They aren't as popular as wild salmon and are lighter in color. Some now have dye added. They are actually dying the fish. But they can't fix the taste. Only wild-caught salmon taste good. I've never eaten farm-raised salmon but from what I've heard it's not so good. And the federal government wanted to add the numbers of farm-raised salmon to the wild salmon so that wild salmon wouldn't be considered endangered. Or so I was told, but then I was also told there was a bridge of plastic bags stretching across the Pacific Ocean.

Wild salmon are endangered or close to it. So the state has tried to do everything possible to help wild salmon swim upstream to spawn. It was probably a picture of a salmon that you had. But counting them manually? Weird. I know they put in "ladders" to help salmon move upstream. But I think there might be a more accurate and more cost-effective way to count salmon. That's the government for ya.

And I would bet that your mug was made in China.

They had "fish ladders" and a glass tube about ~ 3 feet in diameter passed through the office and people sat there and counted the fish as they swam upstream.