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  #1  
Old Jan 12, '11, 12:16 pm
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Pakesh Pakesh is offline
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Default Daily Divine Liturgy

I apologize if this has been asked a dozen times before. How prevalent is the practice of having a daily Divine Liturgy in Eastern Catholic Churches? I know that isn't a true part of Eastern Tradition, and that it's a latinization. I have come across that in Ukrainian Catholic and Ruthenian Parishes. Are they the only ones? Is there an effort to get rid of this practice?

Thanks, and God Bless,
Pakesh
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  #2  
Old Jan 12, '11, 12:21 pm
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

A number of our Eparchy's parishes have daily Divine Liturgies except Mondays, unless its a feast day.


edit: if you missed the Religion part on the top right, I go to a UGCC parish.
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  #3  
Old Jan 12, '11, 12:30 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakesh View Post
How prevalent is the practice of having a daily Divine Liturgy in Eastern Catholic Churches? I know that isn't a true part of Eastern Tradition, and that it's a latinization. I have come across that in Ukrainian Catholic and Ruthenian Parishes. Are they the only ones? Is there an effort to get rid of this practice?
Yes, it is a latinization, but no, the Ukrainians and Ruthenians are not the only ones affected by it. The practice is far more prevalent (almost ubiquitous) in the East and Orient in general than one might think.
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  #4  
Old Jan 12, '11, 1:05 pm
Alexander Roman Alexander Roman is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

I would disagree that daily Divine Liturgy is a Latinization. The fact that it isn't always held ini parish Churches is one thing. In monasteries, daily Divine Liturgy is a fact as one Orthodox Monk told me. During the Great Fast, the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts was, at one time, celebrated daily throughout the week,(in place of Divine Liturgies with the Consecration) although it is now limited to twice a week.

Alex
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  #5  
Old Jan 12, '11, 1:05 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Metropolitan Cantor Institute site states that the Divine Liturgy is not celebrated every day, rather on Sundays and feast days, and may be celebrated on weekdays, but not celebrated at all on strict fast days, such as those during the Great Fast in preparation for Pascha. In the Great Fast we have the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts on Wed and Fri.
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  #6  
Old Jan 12, '11, 1:24 pm
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by malphono View Post
Yes, it is a latinization, but no, the Ukrainians and Ruthenians are not the only ones affected by it. The practice is far more prevalent (almost ubiquitous) in the East and Orient in general than one might think.
I don't think a daily Divine Liturgy is a Latinization. In fact, I believe St. Symeon the New Theologian recommended it (or was it Isaac the Syrian?). St. Seraphim of Sarov always celebrated a daily Divine Liturgy, and I'm pretty sure that it's typical for monasteries to have daily Divine Liturgies. Personally I'd love to see daily Divine Liturgies introduced into my parish, along with daily Vespers and Orthros. But that just isn't realistic.
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  #7  
Old Jan 12, '11, 1:25 pm
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

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Originally Posted by Vico View Post
Metropolitan Cantor Institute site states that the Divine Liturgy is not celebrated every day, rather on Sundays and feast days, and may be celebrated on weekdays, but not celebrated at all on strict fast days, such as those during the Great Fast in preparation for Pascha. In the Great Fast we have the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts on Wed and Fri.
I forgot about the rule that forbids the celebration of the Divine Liturgy on days of strict fast.
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  #8  
Old Jan 12, '11, 8:21 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

This thread is most interesting: the seemingly simple question is complicated by implicit disagreements on the meaning of "divine liturgy", and "daily".

To the best of my knowledge, in the Byzantine practice, there is only one day on which a liturgy with communion is not allowed: Great and Holy Friday. On other days we may have either the DL of SJC or SBG, a vesperal liturgy of SBG, or on M-F during the great fast, the presanctified liturgy. Some folks don't think the term "divine liturgy" applies to the presanctified service. But if we neglect that details, then I think it fair to say that the possibility of serving a liturgy that can be served on every day but Great and Holy Friday qualifies as "daily". In some churches, the days of presanctified liturgy have been limited eg to Wed and Friday.

Daily liturgy is served in some EO cathedrals and monasteries. At least one EO saint is known for having served the liturgy daily since his ordination. Here are some links to discussions at OC.net
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=24544.0
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=20827.0

I am curious as to how this practice is taken to be a Latinization.
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  #9  
Old Jan 12, '11, 9:36 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdjs View Post
This thread is most interesting: the seemingly simple question is complicated by implicit disagreements on the meaning of "divine liturgy", and "daily".

To the best of my knowledge, in the Byzantine practice, there is only one day on which a liturgy with communion is not allowed: Great and Holy Friday. On other days we may have either the DL of SJC or SBG, a vesperal liturgy of SBG, or on M-F during the great fast, the presanctified liturgy. Some folks don't think the term "divine liturgy" applies to the presanctified service. But if we neglect that details, then I think it fair to say that the possibility of serving a liturgy that can be served on every day but Great and Holy Friday qualifies as "daily". In some churches, the days of presanctified liturgy have been limited eg to Wed and Friday.

Daily liturgy is served in some EO cathedrals and monasteries. At least one EO saint is known for having served the liturgy daily since his ordination. Here are some links to discussions at OC.net
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=24544.0
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=20827.0

I am curious as to how this practice is taken to be a Latinization.
The term aliturgical means no consecration, from the Latin perspective. There is only one presanctified Mass day in the Latin Church, Good Friday.

Of course Vespers and the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts are liturgies, works of the people. The aliturgical Byzantine Catholic Church days are associated with fast/abstinance:

W and F in Cheesefare week (not optional).
M through F in Great Fast (not optional). LPG: W, F.
Annunciation Vigil Divine Liturgy supercedes.
M through W in Holy Week (not optional). LPG: M, TU, W
Apostles Fast: 4 days in June, optional.
Dormition Fast: 2 days in August, optional.
St. Philip's Fast: 2 days in November and 9 days in December, optional.

LPG = Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts may occur.
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  #10  
Old Jan 13, '11, 3:25 am
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Pakesh Pakesh is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Thank you everyone for the responses! I was looking at a local Ruthenian parish, and their bulletin just said "Divine Liturgy" for the weekdays at 9. For some reason, I assumed it meant a Liturgy with a consecration, i.e. as on Sundays. So it's possible it's that, or the PreSanctified Liturgy I guess.

God Bless,
Pakesh
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  #11  
Old Jan 13, '11, 3:57 am
Patchunky Patchunky is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakesh View Post
Thank you everyone for the responses! I was looking at a local Ruthenian parish, and their bulletin just said "Divine Liturgy" for the weekdays at 9. For some reason, I assumed it meant a Liturgy with a consecration, i.e. as on Sundays. So it's possible it's that, or the PreSanctified Liturgy I guess.

God Bless,
Pakesh
Unless you're looking at a bulletin that's dated for the Great Fast, the church is having a Divine Liturgy. If it's a Pre-sanctified Divine Liturgy, it will state Pre-sanctified Divine Liturgy.

Hope this helps....
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  #12  
Old Jan 13, '11, 8:57 am
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Pakesh Pakesh is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give a quick update. I went to the Parish this morning and it was indeed a complete Divine Liturgy. They celebrate a daily one on Mon. through Thursday.

Thanks again for all the responses.

God Bless,
Pakesh
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  #13  
Old Jan 13, '11, 9:59 am
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
I don't think a daily Divine Liturgy is a Latinization. In fact, I believe St. Symeon the New Theologian recommended it (or was it Isaac the Syrian?). St. Seraphim of Sarov always celebrated a daily Divine Liturgy, and I'm pretty sure that it's typical for monasteries to have daily Divine Liturgies. Personally I'd love to see daily Divine Liturgies introduced into my parish, along with daily Vespers and Orthros. But that just isn't realistic.
I suppose I should have been clearer. The original question was very general and seemed to encompass the entire year, including Lent. (The one assumption I made was to except Holy Friday, which is aliturgical (insofar as there is no DL or Mass or whatever name may be used by one or another Church) in all Churches.) From that perspective, the idea of daily Divine Liturgy is a latinization. (It's interesting to note here that the Ambrosian Rite maintains all Fridays of Lent as aliturgical.)

Insofar as latinization goes, we can also look at CCEO Canon 378: (and how much more latinized than the CCEO can one get?):
Quote:
According to the norm of the particular law clerics are to celebrate the Divine Liturgy frequently, especially on Sundays and holy days of obligation; indeed daily celebration is eagerly encouraged.
There's also the issue of canonical continence which would, of course, not affect monasteries (or celibate priests in general), but would affect parishes staffed by married priests. (I'm not sure about this, but I seem to think that issue also affects Presanctified.)
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  #14  
Old Jan 13, '11, 7:33 pm
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by malphono View Post
I suppose I should have been clearer.... From that perspective, the idea of daily Divine Liturgy is a latinization.
You still need to be clearer; the boldface doesn't really clarify anything.

If you are using the "Divine Litrugy" in an manner that excludes the liturgy of presanctified, then of course daily divine liturgy would inherently involve celebration of the SJC or SBG liturgy when the presanctified is called for, and would thus be an abuse.

However it should also be reasonably clear from the discussion of Orthodox known to celebrate the liturgy daily that people tend to include rather than exclude the presanctified liturgy. In this context, there is no inherent abuse, and not a thing that can be considered a Latinization.
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  #15  
Old Jan 21, '11, 5:58 pm
Cecilianus Cecilianus is offline
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Default Re: Daily Divine Liturgy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
I don't think a daily Divine Liturgy is a Latinization. In fact, I believe St. Symeon the New Theologian recommended it (or was it Isaac the Syrian?). St. Seraphim of Sarov always celebrated a daily Divine Liturgy, and I'm pretty sure that it's typical for monasteries to have daily Divine Liturgies. Personally I'd love to see daily Divine Liturgies introduced into my parish, along with daily Vespers and Orthros. But that just isn't realistic.
St. Abraham of Smolensk also celebrated Divine Liturgy every day, according to Fedotov (in The Russian Religious Mind, p. 170ish), as did St. Macarios of Corinth. Historically I think it is a Latinization for that to be done outside of monasteries, but my attitude towards it is the same as the other Latinization prevalent in Russia and Ukraine of having choral liturgies: it works, so why not?
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