Sorry about that Ratzinger thing, dear world - Page 2

Scott_Lafrance · #16 Apr 29, '05, 5:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolitionman65

Perhaps we need a forum category entitled: "Heterodoxy". Threads such as this one and the one on Father Callan (sp?) would fit right in there.

There is one already, it is call "Non-Catholic Religions".

Shellac · #17 Apr 29, '05, 5:38 am

Susan Lersch is a Chicago artist who paints in oils. She made her debut in 2003 at the Garden Gallery of the ArtShow in Wicker Park, and has shown and sold her work at the Bucktown Arts Fest, the Bucktown Holiday ArtShow, and Addendum, all in Chicago. In her adventuresome past, Susan spent 25 years or so in the theatre as playwright, actor, director, musical director and agent. After all that, painting seemed like a swell idea, and still does. Susan will make her professional gallery debut in December 2004 at Ariodante in New Orleans. She lives in the city with her husband, actor Denny Kinsella

auroraj42 · #18 Apr 29, '05, 6:11 am

ummmm, yeah....that is a little scary...

why do people feel the need to try to change God? I honestly don't understand it...God is not feminine. Period. End of story.

I found the truth in the Catholic Church, the church built by Christ on St. Peter. A church that stands the test of time, that doesn't change things willy nilly. I found the Church because I was on a quest for truth and stability. I grew up in churches who's views changed with each new pastor. I felt lost trying to figure out what I truly believed. Now I have a stable source of faith, and people want to go around messing it up willy nilly. I just don't get it...

She admits to being in dissent at the end. Why is it that she can say that, and yet not see what that means?

Can someone explain to me why the Catholic Church is supposed to change? I don't understand why it should.

Ann-Elisabeth · #19 Apr 29, '05, 6:15 am

... um... what is the matter with this one???

(sorry about that Susan Lersch thing, dear fellow catholics... )

Ann

Timothy888 · #20 Apr 29, '05, 6:15 am

Why, you sin in calling our Father our Mother, what Cardinal Ratzinger did as a child has no bearing on what he's doing now!

We all sinned at one point or another in our lives, when we repented of those sins we were forgiven, Pope Benedikt XVI whether he's a desendant of Peter or not, is the worldly leader of many Christians.
As such alone he deserves respect, not doubt.

I think he understands many more things (through his lifes experiance) than another would, i'm sure he's repented, thus God can use his experiance for great good otherwise he wouldn't have got to where he is.

I believe he'll be a great pope, and in this direction i will continue to pray, he needs the supportive prayer of all believers at all times, if he is to do a good job.

So be supportive not destructive!

We should be positive and be content in whatever situation we are, it's surely the place God wants us, so we should thank God in all circumstances, because in the end He has put us where we are for our own good, as well as His Glory!

Lisa N · #21 Apr 29, '05, 6:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by auroraj42

ummmm, yeah....that is a little scary...

why do people feel the need to try to change God? I honestly don't understand it...God is not feminine. Period. End of story.

I found the truth in the Catholic Church, the church built by Christ on St. Peter. A church that stands the test of time, that doesn't change things willy nilly. I found the Church because I was on a quest for truth and stability. I grew up in churches who's views changed with each new pastor. I felt lost trying to figure out what I truly believed. Now I have a stable source of faith, and people want to go around messing it up willy nilly. I just don't get it....

My sentiments exactly. I was in a church where they could vote doctrine in and out depending on who went to the General Conferece. HUH?

Quote:

Originally Posted by auroraj42

She admits to being in dissent at the end. Why is it that she can say that, and yet not see what that means?

Can someone explain to me why the Catholic Church is supposed to change? I don't understand why it should.

My question has been, on what basis? I am perfectly happy to discuss something if there is a basis for discussion. But "I want change so I can engage in my sin of choice" is hardly compelling to me. There was an article on one of these threads about a defrocked priest who believed Pope Benedict XVI should "talk to gays" as if homosexuals have taken over for the Holy Spirit. Where do these wild ideas originate?

Lisa N

LoneRanger · #22 Apr 29, '05, 6:23 am

if that's not the scariest thing i have seen this morning or what??????????????

i will hold her Tonto, you get to scalping.... start right under the chin.

auroraj42 · #23 Apr 29, '05, 6:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa N

My sentiments exactly. I was in a church where they could vote doctrine in and out depending on who went to the General Conferece. HUH?

My question has been, on what basis? I am perfectly happy to discuss something if there is a basis for discussion. But "I want change so I can engage in my sin of choice" is hardly compelling to me. There was an article on one of these threads about a defrocked priest who believed Pope Benedict XVI should "talk to gays" as if homosexuals have taken over for the Holy Spirit. Where do these wild ideas originate?

Lisa N

that is exactly how I feel...

I can say that since truly exploring our faith, I have had my eyes opened to how Satan manipulates people. He would be my guess on where these wild ideas start.

**fix** · #24 Apr 29, '05, 6:31 am

Quote:

So when the now-pope says I can’t be a priest -– or arguably, even a Catholic -– I smile a compassionate smile (on my good days) or flip him a non-Holy-Spirit bird (on my less Christian ones). The pope simply doesn’t have the authority to take my religion or my ministry away from me.

She is her own authority. Her own goddess. As our new Pope says... the dictatorship of relativism.

**Tantum ergo** · #25 Apr 29, '05, 6:34 am

MY religion, MY ministry. . .

Me, Me, Me.

In the (much wittier) words of another poster, let's offer dear Anna a WAAAAAAAAAAAMBURGER, with a little extra cheese to go with the whine.

Oh, how dare some MAN dictate to me how I live MY religion? bleats Anna.
Wait until she tries to tell off Jesus. . .oh, gosh, guess she just did, in the person of the man He appointed His Vicar on earth, didn't she?

Timothy888 · #26 Apr 29, '05, 6:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantum ergo

MY religion, MY ministry. . .

Me, Me, Me.

In the (much wittier) words of another poster, let's offer dear Anna a WAAAAAAAAAAAMBURGER, with a little extra cheese to go with the whine.

Oh, how dare some MAN dictate to me how I live MY religion? bleats Anna.
Wait until she tries to tell off Jesus. . .oh, gosh, guess she just did, in the person of the man He appointed His Vicar on earth, didn't she?

Yep, i just hope she reads this stuff, boy the burgers here would sure feed her! Though thinking of herself as an alpha female will probably starve her and in the end, after causing a lot of pain to other people, kill her.

Allen537 · #27 Apr 29, '05, 7:08 am

Some people just need to leave the Church...and she's one of them.

JimO · #28 Apr 29, '05, 7:09 am

I e-mailed the following to her just now and would encourage others to do the same. But, remember to be charitable.

Ms. Lersch,

After reading your recent "Morning-after Manifesto", my first instinct was to send and very un-Christian e-mailed response and I am sorry for having that initial reaction. As they say, I am a work in progress. However, I did want to respond in the most charitable tone that I can muster and still get across how I feel about your article. First, I totally disagree with you. When you say that you are a "Progressive Catholic", I'm not sure exactly where you stand on various issues like abortion, homosexuality, and euthanasia, but if you are like the "Progressives" I know, you probably don't agree with the Church's teaching on these issues. If I mischaracterize you, please forgive my presumption.

You justify your attitudes towards "diversity" (a signal word to indicate that we should tolerate behavior that the Church teaches is sin) by saying that Jesus practiced diversity. Well, He did indeed hang out with the social outcasts who were considered sinners and He did love each and every one of them deeply - enough to die for them. What He didn't do, though, was approve of their sin. He forgave the sin, but His suffering and death was caused by that same sin. He didn't change the "rules" to be "tolerant". As a matter of fact, forgiveness isn't necessary if there is no sin. He sharply rebuked the hypocritical Pharisees for pretending to obey the letter of the Law, while violating the spirit of the Law. He didn't, however, change the Law. He even stated clearly that He didn't come to change even the slightest punctuation of the Law but to fulfill the Law. So, don't confuse Christ's reaching out to sinners to bring them to repentance with the "tolerance" and "acceptance of diversity" of today, which are nothing more than attempts to redefine sin. Somewhere in Scripture Jesus states that one sign that the spirit of antichrist is in world is that people will call what is evil (such as aborion, homosexuality), good and what is good (obedience to Christ in His Church), evil. The damage you claim that the Church has done, has not been inflicted by the Church, but by Satan (who many "Progressives" even deny the existance of) through so blurring the lines between good and evil that they begin to blend. Thus, people walk in sin thinking they are doing good. This is Satan's greatest victory in the modern world. Is it "damaging" to someone to warn them that they are in sin? Jesus did that all the time. Most often, the damage is self inflicted because one refuses to acknowledge the sin and refuses to repent. I've made this mistake many times in my life, but by the grace of God, others helped me see my sin for what it is. However, these days the words "repent" and "sin" are considered offensive. The cardinal sin in America in the 21st Century is to say "You are wrong", unless, of course, one is saying that to an orthodox Catholic.

One last thing Ms. Lersch, this isn't your Church or my Church, it is Christ's Church. It is not our place to change its foundational beliefs. We accept Christ or we don't, and we accept His Church or we don't. People call themselves "Catholic" more as a cultural identity than as an indicator of a belief system, like calling oneself "Jewish". With groups like "Catholics for Choice", the word has lost its meaning. One cannot be Catholic and Pro-choice or Catholic and Pro-homosexual marriage any more than one can be Christian and not believe in the Virgin Birth or the Trinity. We do not define what is "Catholic", it defines us. It defines a relationship with Jesus Christ in which we love Him and obey Him. In yesterday's Gospel from John, Jesus stated clearly, "If you love Me you will obey My commands." Obedience, which is so abhorrant to the "Progressives" I know, is a requirement of a relationship with Christ. Call yourself what you like, but neither you nor any of us can redefine what it means to be a true follower of Christ and what it means to be Catholic. And, if you hold to heretical beliefs and lead others into heresy, your soul could be in mortal danger.

**Tantum ergo** · #29 Apr 29, '05, 7:14 am

Ms. Lersch

I am a Catholic woman, in fact a woman of your own age and upbringing, arguably as active in "ministry" (as a choir member and organist, and in my young adult years as a reader) as you. BTW, you are not a "Eucharistic Minister", you are an "Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion". Only ordained priests are ministers of the Eucharist, by Canon Law. The "extraordinary" part of your title means just that--you are not to be engaged in this "ministry" on a regular or ordinary basis. While I am appreciative of the fact that you claim to "take" communion to shut-ins, you do not consecrate the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Jesus Christ. As you go about your "powerful" ministry, not-so-subtly in your propaganda pieces trying to lessen, minimize, and degrade the ministry of priests worldwide, and most especially that priesthood of our new Pope, Benedict XVI, please remember that the Person in whom you apparently have such a vested claim that you pontificate that you know, better than a Pope, better than any man, any clergy, etc. what this Person is, wants, instituted or requires in His followers, had some very specific teachings that you are ignoring at your peril. Item the first: "Take up My Cross and follow Me." I don't hear much from you about patient bearing of crosses, Ms. Lersch. Why not? Item the second: "I have given you example, that so you also shall do. The one who would be greatest in heaven must be least." I don't hear about selfless service from you, Ms.Lersch, only a thinly disguised lust for power, requested, nay demanded as some sort of expiatory offering for the nameless, countless sins committed by those dastardly MEN against pitiful helpless WOMEN. Do you not remember, Ms. Lersch, what power does? The lessons are there throughout history, and now you wish to demand more power (and what you want is an abuse, not a "restitution" nor an equalization, but pure and simple abuse, vindictive, vainglorious, and diabolical in its roots) and make the lot of women worse by convincing them that they need to act, claim, demand some sort of power, else they are nothing? What, pray tell, was Christ, and what did He ask of us? Not to clamber all over each other, stabbing each other in the back as we jockey to have positions of "power".
You and the women you claim to speak for are the Publicans, loudly praising yourselves for all the "good" you do, taking public glory that you are doing so in the teeth of male dominated obstruction of your female "perfections", lauding to the skies your "service" and putting God firmly in His place. . .He's to be the admiring and laudatory recipient of whatever moral relativism you feel is "most important to Him". . .of course, what He Himself might state, feel, or require can only be accepted by the wise feminist in so far as it "resonates" to "reality". Jesus, as a man, is Himself "suspect"--you don't think that the current Pagel-ish "revisionism" and the exaltation of Mary Magdalen as the "real" Christ-figure and Goddess is coincidental to these shrill screams for power, do you? Since Christ is male, and the blessed Mother Mary is hampered by being a nightmare to right-thinking feminists--after all, she was a virgin (oppressed sexuality!), a mother (horror, a breeder, denied a career!), and, worst of all, a humble woman!!!--well, the next best thing is to find a "woman of the times" who has a questionable history (so you can claim she was marginalized and of course this had to be because she was the real deal) and can be manipulated into being the front for the "new woman". As I said, diabolical thinking. Thanks be to God, we know that Satan will not prevail, but WOE TO THEM by whom a person is dragged into sin. You, Ms. Lersch, may wish to meditate--and say a Rosary or two--upon that last statement.

Verbum Caro · #30 Apr 29, '05, 7:24 am

At least she is consistent. (Except for the married lesbian part).

Quote:

Susan Lersch, a Chicago native, worked as an actress, director, musical director, Token Lesbian and board member of the infamous Speak Its Name theatre during the early eighties. She is the author of the plays Sisters: Some Theatrical Rituals about the Nunnery, and A Night at Dykes Who Date, thanks to Rick Paul of Lionheart, who patiently mentored her and occasionally let her act in one of his own plays. Since that time, a lot of other stuff happened, like her wonderful husband, Chicago actor Denny Kinsella. Then Susan, who is getting quite middle aged by now, spent many years as editor-agent for Christopher Moore and Michael Butler, working on the Pope Joan musical project. She owns Lersch & Hartman, which provides talent representation, editorial and business services. Susan just finished her new play, Hail Mary, a comedy about the mysteries of the rosary. Half a century in one paragraph; even she is impressed.

(http://condor.depaul.edu/~american/t...eSpeakers.html)