Is there such thing as good and evil

justamoose89 · #1 Jan 20, '11, 3:31 pm

I am a student at the university of the incarnate word (and a devout catholic) who was just told by the leaders of campus ministry that there is no such thing as good and evil. How can my friends and i respond?

bkayw · #2 Jan 20, '11, 4:50 pm

http://www.ohio.com/news/nation/103864724.html

Good or evil?

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/19/a...with-scissors/

Good or evil?

Don't following these "leaders" of Campus Ministry.

Ask why they're choosing to believe in moral relativism.

Bendecida · #3 Jan 20, '11, 4:50 pm

Aushwitz is a symbol of absolute evil.

beafedor · #4 Jan 20, '11, 4:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justamoose89

I am a student at the university of the incarnate word (and a devout catholic) who was just told by the leaders of campus ministry that there is no such thing as good and evil. How can my friends and i respond?

Sometimes people say that and mean that they don't want to judge other people's actions (therefore they don't want to speak in terms of good and evil). I always give people the benefit of the doubt but if this is one of those relativism theories (there is no Truth, each person has their own truth...), I would respond something like: if there was no Truth and no moral good and no immoral evil, it would be like driving cars without traffic lights and traffic rules. What would happen? people would decide to drive in the line they want, in the direction they want, stop and go and speed up as they please and they would kill each other.

bkayw · #5 Jan 20, '11, 5:13 pm

P.S. According to Fr. Groeschel, there are only 21 authentic Catholic colleges in the U.S.

http://thenewmanguide.com/TableofCon...2/Default.aspx

http://thenewmanguide.com/TableofCon...8/Default.aspx

http://thenewmanguide.com/LinkClick....c%3d&tabid=646

**tonyrey** · #6 Jan 21, '11, 3:28 am

Ask them if there are no positive and negative elements in reality, e.g. creative and destructive, healthy and diseased, orderly and disorderly, proportionate and disproportionate, honest and dishonest, moderate and immoderate, reasonable and unreasonable...

There is a remarkable description of evil in "The Divine Names" - a work attributed to Dionysius the Areopagite:

"Thus evil is contrary to progress, purpose, nature, cause, source, goal, definition, will, and substance. It is a defect, a deficiency, a weakness, a disproportion, an error, purposeless, unlovely, lifeless, unwise, unreasonable, imperfect, unreal, causeless, indeterminate, sterile, inert, powerless, disordered, incongruous, indefinite, dark, unsubstantial and never in itself possessed of any existence whatsoever."

Individual attributes can be questioned but the main thrust of his argument is sound. It is absurd to deny the bipolarity of existence.

beafedor · #7 Jan 21, '11, 9:34 am

By the way, has anyone seen a possessed person? If you ever come in presence of one, you can't doubt that the the devil is real.

davidv · #8 Jan 21, '11, 9:56 am

If they don't exist, why are there words in our language to describe them?

Cristiano · #9 Jan 21, '11, 11:01 am

It sounds like someone trying to copycat Spinoza.

justamoose89 · #10 Jan 21, '11, 4:09 pm

I guess I shouldnt be surprised. During our peer minister campus ministry training, the director brought in a speaker (a priest actually) who told us that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God were two different beings, that one religion is not more true than another, and that there is no hell. I can't wait to graduate.

jwright82 · #11 Jan 22, '11, 11:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidv

If they don't exist, why are there words in our language to describe them?

You are on the right track. The sort of argument here is a conceptual argument. What would a language without any value judgements of anykind look like, ethics is one form of value judgement? If we cannot even conceive of a language without words like better or worse, right or wrong, than that severly cripples any attempt to be a moral reletavist. You see we all must make sense out of our linguistic habits, by that I mean that if we cannot help talking about things in a certian way than we must figure out why? We cannot help but talk in moral terms so we must figure out why? So the question is does saying that good and evil don't exist explain why we cannot help but talk in moral categories? No it doesn't.

justamoose89 · #12 Jan 29, '11, 7:17 pm

The reply that I've gotten from them is that there is no such thing as good and evil, only action and consequence. At that moment, my friend brought out his Bible and showed them about 6 verses in scripture that prove there is good and evil. And then he was told that he wasn't allowed to use a Bible, because this was for "dialogue" only. At a Catholic school! It just disgusts me. I feel like there is no winning with these people.

The Exodus · #13 Jan 29, '11, 9:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justamoose89

The reply that I've gotten from them is that there is no such thing as good and evil, only action and consequence. At that moment, my friend brought out his Bible and showed them about 6 verses in scripture that prove there is good and evil. And then he was told that he wasn't allowed to use a Bible, because this was for "dialogue" only. At a Catholic school! It just disgusts me. I feel like there is no winning with these people.

Point out to these people that they obviously think it "evil" to use a Bible in a discussion which is "dialogue only."

**tonyrey** · #14 Jan 29, '11, 9:08 pm

Ask them whether they approve of rape, torture and murder? If not why not?

ConstantineTG · #15 Jan 29, '11, 9:11 pm

Evil is nothing more than the absence of good.