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  #1  
Old Jan 22, '11, 6:12 pm
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MarcusAndreas MarcusAndreas is offline
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Default Secular third orders with full habits

Curious, are there any of these? I know such a thing was perfectly common back in the long day but how about now?
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  #2  
Old Jan 23, '11, 8:28 am
GloriousOrder GloriousOrder is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

As your signature contains the famous words of the blessed Virgin to Dominic, I think it is appropriate to talk about the Order of Preachers first.

We know from the singular facts of history that St. Martin de Porres, St. Catherine of Siena, and St. Louis de Montfort were tertiary Dominicans. The first two chose to wear the male and female Lay habit, respectively. As St. Louis was already a priest upon his being received by the Preachers, he continued to wear priestly garments in lieu of a habit. St. Martin always wore the simple white habit and black scapular of the Third Order. I've heard that Vatican II abolished the distinction between Lay/Secular/Third Order Dominican habit and the Friars' habit. I don't know if this is true or, what!
  #3  
Old Jan 25, '11, 7:28 am
melchesidechpio melchesidechpio is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

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Originally Posted by MarcusAndreas View Post
Curious, are there any of these? I know such a thing was perfectly common back in the long day but how about now?
as a novitiate in the Secular Franciscan Order, we were the Tau. To me that is my habit and no it isn't like the friars where in the 1st Order. I haven't read the rule of 1883 to know if at the time Secular Franciscans wore full habit or not or even today if some by chance still observe that rule instead of the 1978 rule updated by Pope Paul VI. But I will look into it.
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  #4  
Old Jan 25, '11, 11:04 am
barb finnegan barb finnegan is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

When I was in the Third Order Franciscans (from 1979 to 1988) I wore a habit over my secular clothes. It looked like a friar's habit, with the hood and a beanie on the head. But the wearing of the habit was discouraged by the higher ups in the Provincial food chain.
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Old Jan 25, '11, 3:35 pm
melchesidechpio melchesidechpio is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

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Originally Posted by barb finnegan View Post
When I was in the Third Order Franciscans (from 1979 to 1988) I wore a habit over my secular clothes. It looked like a friar's habit, with the hood and a beanie on the head. But the wearing of the habit was discouraged by the higher ups in the Provincial food chain.
Thanks for shedding some light on the habit
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  #6  
Old Jan 26, '11, 7:34 am
Diaconia Diaconia is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

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Originally Posted by barb finnegan View Post
But the wearing of the habit was discouraged by the higher ups in the Provincial food chain.
That's unfortunate, our world needs the witness value of habits (and for that matter, clerical attire, too) more than ever.

Tertiaries should wear the habits of their orders.
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  #7  
Old Jan 26, '11, 8:13 am
barb finnegan barb finnegan is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

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That's unfortunate, our world needs the witness value of habits (and for that matter, clerical attire, too) more than ever.

Tertiaries should wear the habits of their orders.
AMEN! I AGREE!

There were a lot of troubles with 'some' of the higher-ups because we wanted to wear our habits. Of course, not out in the street; just in the setting of our monthly meetings and doing things such as attending retreats or Congresses, or on pilgrimages.

I still have my old Third Order Franciscan habit. I even wore it when I went to Fatima in 1980 and Assisi, Italy in 1981. I always wore my secular 'outer clothes' underneath it-that was a 'given'.
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Old Jan 26, '11, 8:19 am
barb finnegan barb finnegan is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

I might also add that, in addition to the habit and the 'beanie' [looked like the Papal skullcap, only brown instead of white], we wore a Franciscan scapular, a cord around the waist (my first one was made of yarn, but I got a 'real rope' a few years later), and a Franciscan Crown Rosary tied to the cord.

Some of us also wore a silver San Damiano Crucifix, though not with the scapular.

We were 'very Italian', though I was one of the few non-Italians in the fraternity!

Last edited by barb finnegan; Jan 26, '11 at 8:19 am. Reason: adding a word
  #9  
Old Jan 26, '11, 8:05 pm
albertziggy albertziggy is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaconia View Post
That's unfortunate, our world needs the witness value of habits (and for that matter, clerical attire, too) more than ever.

Tertiaries should wear the habits of their orders.
Who knows? Perhaps one day in the future, we will see tertiaries wear their full habits in public. I am looking forward to that!.

In Christ,

albertziggy
  #10  
Old Jan 27, '11, 3:14 am
TiggerS TiggerS is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

I understand that back in history at some point, Third Order members did wear the religious habit of their Order. Does anyone know the actual reason or reasons that this ceased and was legislated against within each Order and Third Order members had to abandon the religious habit per se, while adopting some rather indiscreet (it seems to me) symbol of their Third Order membership. From what I have read on different Catholic Discussion Sites, it does seem that quite a few Third Order seculars would like to wear a religious habit, even if it differed in some way from the habit of the religious per se as the white veil most often will mark a novice in the Order.

TS
  #11  
Old Jan 27, '11, 8:35 pm
albertziggy albertziggy is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

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Originally Posted by TiggerS View Post
I understand that back in history at some point, Third Order members did wear the religious habit of their Order. Does anyone know the actual reason or reasons that this ceased and was legislated against within each Order and Third Order members had to abandon the religious habit per se, while adopting some rather indiscreet (it seems to me) symbol of their Third Order membership. From what I have read on different Catholic Discussion Sites, it does seem that quite a few Third Order seculars would like to wear a religious habit, even if it differed in some way from the habit of the religious per se as the white veil most often will mark a novice in the Order.

TS
This is for the Franciscans...

The full habit was worn by all Franciscan tertiaries until the 1500s, when it became too inconvenient for people both in high positions and craftsmen to wear. In view of the many complaints, Pope Julius II established the scapular held by the cord as the tertiaries’ habit, which could be concealed underneath any kind of clothing.

Pope Clement XI in 1704 further decreased the scapular in size until it was reduced to two small pieces of material hanging on tapes, without coming into contact with the cord.

In 1957, in the publication of the Franciscan Third Order Constitutions, the possibility of replacing the scapular and cord with a medallion was discussed and accepted. This paved the way to the donning of the wooden TAU pendant suspended on a cord with three knots.

albertziggy
  #12  
Old Jan 27, '11, 11:16 pm
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DaughterOfMary6 DaughterOfMary6 is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

I know of one Franciscan tertiary order that has all its members in a habit:

The Franciscan Third Order of the Immaculate

They are connected with the Franciscan Friars and Sisters of the Immaculate.

However, I thought you might be interested to know that any third order or oblate member is allowed to be buried in the habit of the order when they die. I always thought that was really neat.
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  #13  
Old Jan 28, '11, 8:24 pm
melchesidechpio melchesidechpio is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertziggy View Post
This is for the Franciscans...

The full habit was worn by all Franciscan tertiaries until the 1500s, when it became too inconvenient for people both in high positions and craftsmen to wear. In view of the many complaints, Pope Julius II established the scapular held by the cord as the tertiaries’ habit, which could be concealed underneath any kind of clothing.

Pope Clement XI in 1704 further decreased the scapular in size until it was reduced to two small pieces of material hanging on tapes, without coming into contact with the cord.

In 1957, in the publication of the Franciscan Third Order Constitutions, the possibility of replacing the scapular and cord with a medallion was discussed and accepted. This paved the way to the donning of the wooden TAU pendant suspended on a cord with three knots.

albertziggy
Thanks for sharing this information. As a novitiate I still have a lot to learn about the Secular Franciscan Order
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  #14  
Old Jan 28, '11, 8:55 pm
LaudemGloriae LaudemGloriae is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaughterOfMary6 View Post
I know of one Franciscan tertiary order that has all its members in a habit:

The Franciscan Third Order of the Immaculate

They are connected with the Franciscan Friars and Sisters of the Immaculate.

However, I thought you might be interested to know that any third order or oblate member is allowed to be buried in the habit of the order when they die. I always thought that was really neat.
I think it's neat too. My great-grandmother was a Franciscan tertiary and she was buried in her habit

On another note, though they are different than a Third Order, the Schoenstatt Sisters of Mary are a Secular Institute and they wear a habit, http://www.schsrsmary.org/
  #15  
Old Jan 29, '11, 2:14 pm
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Victorious Victorious is offline
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Default Re: Secular third orders with full habits

Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriousOrder View Post
As your signature contains the famous words of the blessed Virgin to Dominic, I think it is appropriate to talk about the Order of Preachers first.

We know from the singular facts of history that St. Martin de Porres, St. Catherine of Siena, and St. Louis de Montfort were tertiary Dominicans. The first two chose to wear the male and female Lay habit, respectively. As St. Louis was already a priest upon his being received by the Preachers, he continued to wear priestly garments in lieu of a habit. St. Martin always wore the simple white habit and black scapular of the Third Order. I've heard that Vatican II abolished the distinction between Lay/Secular/Third Order Dominican habit and the Friars' habit. I don't know if this is true or, what!
I am a tertiary Dominican, and so am in a position to address this. There did used to be a distinctive tertiary habit with a black scapular, at least for lay brothers (St. Martin de Porres is sometimes depicted wearing this habit); this has been suppressed. Some tertiaries wear the habit at their monthly chapter meetings (e.g., the Dominican tertiaries of Vietnam). We are allowed to wear the habit in a priory. We may be buried in the habit. Other than in these settings, we do not wear it. At our chapter meetings, we wear either our profession crosses or white scapulars. We are encouraged always to wear some sign of our membership in the Order of Preachers; I personally wear a lapel pin with the Dominican shield. I do not own a habit, and I do not know of anyone in my chapter who does.
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