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  #16  
Old Jan 26, '11, 6:57 pm
K-McD's Avatar
K-McD K-McD is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betterave View Post
Not simply arrogant; 'arrogant,' as you are using the term. Do you know what scare quotes are?

"Proof is in the pudding" - so by your construal of this notion, Joseph Smith was a great prophet and many Mormon missionaries are great preachers of the gospel - "just look at the numbers." Many Muslims too. (And Oprah; and Obama; we could go on.) If you make converts, what you're saying must be true and must bring glory to the living God.

But of course none of that makes sense. You need to learn some respect for truth, friend. That is a more essential part of following Jesus than being charismatic or popular. Caritas in veritate.
I think you are taking this to a whole new level. Using your technique of telling people "God said so" to bring people back to Mass - HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU BROUGHT BACK TO CHURCH USING THAT METHOD?

You still dance around my point. I know the truth, I study the faith. Conveying the truth is unique to many people. What will work with one person won't work with another. That is not watering down the Gospel, its teaching it anew; not redefining it. Being blunt, telling people they must go to Mass because God said so, probably won't work. So, I ask again. How many people have you brought back to the Church using your method? I can safely say, NONE. You will not inspire people to go to church by telling them God said so. No matter how true it is.

How to evangelize? Do what Christ did. Walk with them first and understand who they are. Then share the truth with them according to their experiences; their understanding. Bring the Gospel to them as fast or as slow as they can grasp it. Everyone is different.

The ideas expressed here are great. Different ways to express the one truth. Not one way for all. The importance is bring souls to Christ while staying faithful to the Gospel. I believe I do that. Being blunt by tell them they have to go to Mass because God said so, has not and probably never will work. But hey, prove me wrong.
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  #17  
Old Jan 26, '11, 7:16 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
I'm a team member of my Catholic Parish's RCIA: have been for a few years. We have a couple who are attending because the husband wants to enter the Church his wife is a member of. He came willingly, not coerced. He has a few questions which I want to present here to gather some ideas. I know the answers but I need ideas for apologetically presenting them to him. You don't have to answer them all if you can't, but just take one or two and give me your ideas. I will see them next Monday to reply to their question(s). Thanks
Thank you for your service!

Quote:
1. I wake up every day and thank God. Why do I have to come to Church?
Several reasons.

One is, at Mass, we make the Sacrifice of Thanksgiving, by offering the bread and wine on the Altar. We do this under the leadership of the priest. Jesus accepts the offering of bread and wine by transforming it into His body and blood, soul and divinity, and returning it to us under the appearances of the same bread and wine that was offered on the Altar. Even if we can't yet receive Holy Communion, we can still offer ourselves to Jesus with the bread and wine, in thanksgiving for the many blessings He gives to us in our lives.

Another reason is that, as a community of faith, we uphold one another in love through the prayers that we recite together, we hear the Scriptures read out together, and we affirm one another in our faith. It's difficult to remain faithful, all by ourselves. It is certainly possible to worship God on the golf course, or in the mountains, but one seldom sees anyone actually doing so - and the reason is that we really do need the support of a worshipping community, to be able to worship regularly and consistently.

Someone once asked a famous preacher this very same question, while sitting in front of a roaring campfire. The preacher said nothing - he just took an ember out of the fire and laid it in the sand, some distance away from the fire. Being isolated, and having used up all of its fuel, the ember went cold in a very few short moments. The lesson? If we want to stay "on fire" for Jesus, then we have to stay "in the fire" of the Church.

Quote:
2. I've tryed different churches over the years, what's the difference in churches? What's makes Catholic Church different?
The Catholic Church is special because it was established by Christ. It was Jesus Himself who appointed our first Pope - His Apostle, Peter.

Quote:
3. I'm a good person, why do I need to be better?
Being good is certainly better than being bad, but God created us for greatness. Becoming the best version of ourselves - the most loving, obedient, faithful person we can be - is our mission in life.

Quote:
4. If God is love and we are going to be saved anyway, why so many rules?
The rules are there to help us become the best version of ourselves. Imagine children playing with chess pieces. I am sure they could invent some games - but chess only becomes really interesting - and it only really becomes possible to compete with other players and win prizes - when you learn the rules, and when you become well-practiced at it. It's the same with being a Christian. We can play around with it, and make up our own rules - but to really work together and accomplish great things, we all need to be following the same rules.

Quote:
5. Why do we have to be married in the church? (They have a civil marriage.)
Most of us grow up believing that marriage is about two people making each other happy in this world. In reality, marriage is about three persons - you, your wife, and God - participating in the Creation together.

Quote:
6. Are we going to hell if we aren't? (I presume this referrs to #5)
No one can say who will go to Hell, or not. What's important is to do the will of God, as best we can. The Church provides us with the tools and instructions that we need to do this.
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  #18  
Old Jan 26, '11, 9:22 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
That's really arrogant and out of touch. Tell me how many converts do you get with that approach? How many non-practicing Catholics do you get to return to Mass with that approach? Remember, Christ walked with the two before he started evangelizing to them. The road to Emmas.(sp?)
Betterave has been a person who sparked me on to continue to go to Mass, and a person who does not give you a shiny slippery sales pitch, or the same old worn out apologetic.

Betterave understands Philosophy.

Your chastisement in a public forum of a fellow believer is not a good sign to me.
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  #19  
Old Jan 27, '11, 7:12 am
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K-McD K-McD is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberryJam View Post
Betterave has been a person who sparked me on to continue to go to Mass, and a person who does not give you a shiny slippery sales pitch, or the same old worn out apologetic.

Betterave understands Philosophy.

Your chastisement in a public forum of a fellow believer is not a good sign to me.
You were inspired to go back to Mass by Betterave telling you God says so? Well, I'm proven wrong. God bless you and welcome to the Catholic Church.
__________________
You can't get good fruit from a bad tree!

The absence of morality leads to the enslavement of laws. -- Me

Servent of God, Fr. Capodanno, pray for him.

When you sell out Christ, evil has it's hour.
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  #20  
Old Jan 27, '11, 10:39 am
Betterave Betterave is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
I think you are taking this to a whole new level. Using your technique of telling people "God said so" to bring people back to Mass - HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU BROUGHT BACK TO CHURCH USING THAT METHOD?
But I explained to you why that was an irrelevant question!

Quote:
You still dance around my point. I know the truth, I study the faith. Conveying the truth is unique to many people. What will work with one person won't work with another. That is not watering down the Gospel, its teaching it anew; not redefining it. Being blunt, telling people they must go to Mass because God said so, probably won't work.
And yet, that IS the reason why we MUST go to church, that is why it is a moral requirement! Do you really care to deny that? Does anyone else care to deny it? If yes, I'd like to hear your reasons.

(You claim to know the truth - but maybe you are mistaken? Maybe that claim is YOU being blunt and arrogant? You should at least attempt to address the truth or falsity of my claim in a direct way.)
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  #21  
Old Jan 27, '11, 10:46 am
Betterave Betterave is offline
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Default Re: Help with RCIA questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
You were inspired to go back to Mass by Betterave telling you God says so? Well, I'm proven wrong. God bless you and welcome to the Catholic Church.
No, you missed Strawberry's point: Strawberry appreciates the fact that I have good reasoning skills and that I am honest and rigorous in my explanations... which you evidently are not, as your mistake about what Strawberry was saying indicates.

Also you have twisted what I said: I did not say you should try to convince people to go to mass by telling them God says so. I said that if someone wants to know why, as a Catholic, he must go to mass, the correct answer, the answer which is true, is because God requires it. Again, if anyone disagrees with that, I'd like to hear your reasons.
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