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  #1  
Old Jan 25, '11, 8:35 pm
ForeverRome500 ForeverRome500 is offline
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Default It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
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  #2  
Old Jan 25, '11, 9:09 pm
newbie25553 newbie25553 is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

I was listening to Mother Angelica today, and I thought she summed this up nicely.

Someone called in and said that they felt a special "connection" with a particular saint, and they were concerned that they needed to feel that same connection with Jesus.

She said something to the extent of - "What is it about that Saint that makes you feel that connection? It's not the way they look, or anything particularly special about them other than the fact that they loved Jesus and wanted to grow closer to Him."

and to remember that

"Nobody ever became a Saint by loving a Saint; rather by loving Jesus"

I think it's similar with Mary. I'm a converted evangelical protestant so I can relate to what you are feeling.
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  #3  
Old Jan 25, '11, 9:14 pm
Jehoshua Jehoshua is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Any Catholic who worships mary is an idolater and heretic as worship (latria) is due only to the Lord. However proper veneration (dulia) of Mary as the highest amongst the saints is acceptable. This is not worshipping Mary it is merely acknowledgement and due respect of Mary as a holy and blessed person in the life of the Church .

Now lets make it clear that Mary is inferior to Christ (that is less important) as she is human, whereas Christ is both fully man and fully God and through his sacrifice atoned for our sins. I don;t doubt for a second that there are some so-called catholics particularly from rural latin-america who have fallen into actually worshipping mary due to a perverse syncretism of christianity and paganism, but this is abject heresy (ie like the "sancta muerte' cult) and not the norm of the Church. In the orthodox Catholic view Mary is NOT more important than Christ our Lord and any catholic who falls into the abomination of worshipping her is not in good standing with the Church.

---

If you have any specific issues regarding Mary, and any theological queries that you wish to make regarding mariology (theology around Mary) i suggest you spelll out your questions and thoughst clearly on the matter, the opening post is rather vague and is difficult to respond too since it doesn;t give a clear issue to approach. Alternatively you could go to "ask an apologist" here on Catholic online or talk to your local priest about your faith issues and perhaps establish contact with a spiritual director.
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  #4  
Old Jan 25, '11, 9:38 pm
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Monica4316 Monica4316 is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
I think you are misunderstanding devotion to Mary. We are devoted to Mary so that she would lead us to Jesus we believe there's no competition between Jesus and His Mother, who only ever does His will. We ask her to pray for us and lead us closer to Jesus, which she does.

The reason we are devoted to Mary is because of Jesus.

God bless
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  #5  
Old Jan 25, '11, 9:53 pm
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po18guy po18guy is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
Never mind the others. You are on a personal quest for the ultimate truth. Look at what the Church actually teaches, and realize that some others do not follow it and may never follow it. That does not affect the truth one bit. Have you been taught to worship Mary? No. Do you worship Mary? No.

It takes time to understand the devotion, which is a much deeper theological endeavor than you will find anywhere outside of the Catholic Church. Have you asked Father about it? Have you asked those who practice the devotion what they are really doing, or what they truly believe? That is step one toward understanding.
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  #6  
Old Jan 25, '11, 9:56 pm
newbie25553 newbie25553 is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehoshua View Post
Any Catholic who worships mary is an idolater and heretic as worship (latria) is due only to the Lord. However proper veneration (dulia) of Mary as the highest amongst the saints is acceptable. This is not worshipping Mary it is merely acknowledgement and due respect of Mary as a holy and blessed person in the life of the Church .

Now lets make it clear that Mary is inferior to Christ (that is less important) as she is human, whereas Christ is both fully man and fully God and through his sacrifice atoned for our sins. I don;t doubt for a second that there are some so-called catholics particularly from rural latin-america who have fallen into actually worshipping mary due to a perverse syncretism of christianity and paganism, but this is abject heresy (ie like the "sancta muerte' cult) and not the norm of the Church. In the orthodox Catholic view Mary is NOT more important than Christ our Lord and any catholic who falls into the abomination of worshipping her is not in good standing with the Church.

---

If you have any specific issues regarding Mary, and any theological queries that you wish to make regarding mariology (theology around Mary) i suggest you spelll out your questions and thoughst clearly on the matter, the opening post is rather vague and is difficult to respond too since it doesn;t give a clear issue to approach. Alternatively you could go to "ask an apologist" here on Catholic online or talk to your local priest about your faith issues and perhaps establish contact with a spiritual director.
This was an awesome answer. Love the latria vs. dulia - new words for my vocabulary!

Thank you!
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  #7  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:22 pm
GreggAlvarez GreggAlvarez is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
Well, I certainly see your worries. It could be easily misunderstood as worship. Some Christian sects refuse to believe any Catholic who says they do NOT worship Mary. www.jesus-is-savior.com is the pinnacle of that. (Needless to say it is an Evangelical site.) It says specifically that one should believe that Catholics worship Mary despite what they say. (It even goes so far to call Our Blessed Mother the Great Whore. Yet, it has the audacity to say "This is NOT a hate site" when all it is for is to serve judgmental proclivities towards iconoclasm. Ironically, this judgmental site is "Christian".)

And saying that Mary seems more important than Jesus Christ is a lot like saying it seems like the Son is more important than the Father or the Holy Spirit in the Catholic view. That certainly is not the case even if we hear more about Christ than the other two combined. It only seems that way. Mary just brings us to Christ.

Anyway, deep devotion to Mary can be likened to a musician. The musician practices the instrument FOR the music. No musician practices the trumpet (for example, yours truly) merely because they like the trumpet. The main focus is music, not the instrument. This is a similar case here. Mary (along with the Angels, Saints and Martyrs) is the instrument and Christ is the music. All Mary does is lead us to Christ. She brought Him to the world. She will bring us to Christ or Christ to us depending on how one looks at it. (Personally, I do not think it matters which.)

Everybody in Heaven are our friends and want to help us on our journey to God. Mary is our Momma and will help us with whatever we need.

No Catholic worships Mary. If they did, they would not be Catholic. It may seem like worship but prayer, bowing down and/or kneeling to (these latter two are only signs of respect) are not forms of worship. They CAN be used for worship but kneeling in front of a statue is only repect, bowing has been used for repect for ages and prayer in itself is just asking. In any case prayer "to" Mary and the inhabitants of Heaven are mostly Christ-centered. It is a simple thing to grasp. You will understand more fully in due time.

I hope this helps.

God bless
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  #8  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:24 pm
Farsight001 Farsight001 is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
I don't want this to sound rude, but I also don't know how else to word it, so keep that in mind.

Maybe you should pay more attention to Catholicism. Count the statues in a church and compare how many there are of Mary to how many there are of Jesus. Listen to mass and keep track of how much mention Mary gets compared to Jesus. Heck, take a small notepad around with you and keep an actual tally of mentions of Mary compared to mentions of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father.

It feels like 50/50 or 40/60 sometimes, but I sat down and counted it out myself once, and it's more like 5/95.
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  #9  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:24 pm
pablope pablope is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
You may be mistaking what you are observing, in that you are viewing reverence shown to Mary as adoration/worship. There may or there are who show extra reverence to Mary, as the Mother of God, but do not equate it to woship. I think it will help if you go ask the person you are observing what he/she is doing or why?
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  #10  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:34 pm
Luke65 Luke65 is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

"Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?" (Romans 14:4)

Therein lies your problem. You're trying to divine what is in the hearts of your fellow Catholics - never a good idea. Have you ever heard a Catholic say they worship Mary as God? I know I've never heard of it. So why can't you take them at their word? Christ is their Judge, not you. Of course, if you knew that the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ, and the only Ark of Salvation, you wouldn't let anyone or anything keep you away. If you knew that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus, you wouldn't settle for bread and wine - or grape juice! You need to pray for the grace of faith. And you need to learn why our Lord promised us that the gates of hell would not prevail over His Church. It's precisely so that we could know with certainty that there can never be any reason to leave the Church that he built on Peter the Rock; there can never be any reason to separate ourselves from the man who holds the Keys of the Kingdom of God. God bless.
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  #11  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:47 pm
Bohm Bawerk Bohm Bawerk is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

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Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
To be honest, I am Catholic and I can understand your viewpoint. Mary should, however, be venerated, as the Mother of our Saviour and therefore, the epitome of Christian obedience to God's will. The veneration due onto Her is called dulia, whilst veneration of the LORD our God is hyperdulia. Her intercession is incredibly powerful, as seen at the Wedding at Cana in the New Testament (something that Protestants seem to gloss over).

We do not worship Her, but we only ask for Her intercession, since we believe in the Communion of saints (i.e. that those in Heaven still care about us and pray for us), and that we also know that God is "not a God of the dead but of the living" - that includes those in Heaven as well.

That said, I have seen some call themselves "Marian Catholics" (which is tautologous at best), and so I can only be left to wonder if these people are worshipping Mary. If such, they have clearly misunderstood Catholic theology; we do not worship Mary, only venerate Her! Should the righteous not be venerated?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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  #12  
Old Jan 25, '11, 10:51 pm
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

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Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
Catholics have NEVER worshipped Mary.
They will NEVER worship Mary.

Catholics worship almighty God.
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  #13  
Old Jan 25, '11, 11:01 pm
DJgang DJgang is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

Makes me wonder if people who say this ever go to Mass.

Really.
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  #14  
Old Jan 25, '11, 11:07 pm
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roveau roveau is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

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Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
the big conflicting issue, i have.. which sometimes makes me wonder if i should convernt to protestant.. is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
I think you may be thinking of Catholics who have an exaggerated devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary which seems to leave Our Lord in the distance. There are all sorts of Catholics from those who take the devotions too far and across the scale to those that hardly acknowledge her.

If you take the middle road you can't go wrong. You needn't be concerned about what some Catholics seem to do, you just need to work out your own salvation. Your name sounds as though you have already found the right road.
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  #15  
Old Jan 26, '11, 12:41 am
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DavidFilmer DavidFilmer is offline
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Default Re: It just seems catholics worship Mary over Christ

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Originally Posted by ForeverRome500 View Post
is that it seems that in the catholic view... Mary is more important than Jesus, i just, it makes me wonder
If Catholics worship Mary over Christ, then you would expect the weekly/daily Mass to be mostly about Mary. Has this been your experience at Mass? Has your Parish abandoned the Novus Ordo missals and substituted some Mary-centric order of worship?

My Parish uses the approved Novus Ordo worship. In this order, the name of Mary comes up twice. One really doesn't count (it's in the Nicene Creed - "born of the virgin Mary" - but that's really about Jesus, not her). She is mentioned again in the prayer known as the "Confiteor," which concludes with the phrase, "I ask Blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God." Mary is the greatest of the Saints, so she gets special mention here.

Otherwise, Mary is only mentioned if she happens to be in the Gospel reading.

Jesus, on the other hand, dominates the Mass.

If Catholics worship Mary over Jesus, we are doing a pretty poor job of it!
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