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  #46  
Old Feb 20, '11, 8:44 am
Rich Olszewski Rich Olszewski is offline
 
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarrick8383 View Post
Conservatives know that a well will go dry sometime and plan accordingly
Yup. Just look at all those conservative bankers and how wisely they managed their assets and how carefully they made loans to borrowers. Real planning - that the entire country is still suffering from.
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  #47  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:00 am
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curlycool89 curlycool89 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarrick8383 View Post
I think I read about 1 million in population, in that big of an area, is it pretty spread out?

I actually think, in small communities, rural areas that are extremely spread out or with pockets of small communities sort of like it is here. Some ideas like that may be workable if the whole community is conservative and involved.

The problem down here is liberals have no problem spending other peoples money without constraints. Conservatives know that a well will go dry sometime and plan accordingly whereas liberals think it's a bottomless pit of whatever they want.

From what I read the conservative party(I know as much about it as I do the one in England, sorry to say) holds a huge majority of the political power.
Well, actually the conservative party (Progressive Conservative) imploded in the 90s after they got caught stealing money (the former premier now ironically teaches Law at the university). Many of the members formed the Saskatchewan Party, which is basically the conservative party.

It's basically a rural/urban split (Saskatchewan Party/NDP).

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamrefreshed View Post
It horrifying to think that you have to pay for your own coffee and water!
As a private sector worker, we get free coffee and hot chocolate. Obviously the company I work for must be full of closet socialists. At my last government job, the ministry paid for the coffee. It's pretty common from what I see actually.

I think you completely missed the point though. Government workers work hard and all you read from conservatives is that they should work more for less money and benefits. People are going to leave. Now I know that you and others will probably cheer for the poor people loosing their jobs because all government workers are evil (), but that means the government will have to spend more money to outsource the jobs to the private sector (who will charge more because they need to make a profit over and above costs), so the government simply ends up spending more money (which means that you'll just get madder again).

You've got to actually think these things all the way through instead of stopping halfway through when your "goal" has been accomplished. You need to look at what the other direct effects of those actions are. If you don't look at these other effects (if you're blind to the long-term effects) you're going to end up in a place worse than you were before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski View Post
Yup. Just look at all those conservative bankers and how wisely they managed their assets and how carefully they made loans to borrowers. Real planning - that the entire country is still suffering from.
Yep. People seem to forget that one.
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  #48  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:06 am
bbarrick8383 bbarrick8383 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski View Post
Yup. Just look at all those conservative bankers and how wisely they managed their assets and how carefully they made loans to borrowers. Real planning - that the entire country is still suffering from.
They were conservative?
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  #49  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:09 am
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K-McD K-McD is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by bbarrick8383 View Post
They were conservative?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. When you can't fight, you resort to re-write.
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  #50  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:10 am
LCMS_No_More LCMS_No_More is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by curlycool89 View Post
Well, actually the conservative party (Progressive Conservative) imploded in the 90s after they got caught stealing money (the former premier now ironically teaches Law at the university). Many of the members formed the Saskatchewan Party, which is basically the conservative party.

It's basically a rural/urban split (Saskatchewan Party/NDP).


As a private sector worker, we get free coffee and hot chocolate. Obviously the company I work for must be full of closet socialists. At my last government job, the ministry paid for the coffee. It's pretty common from what I see actually.

I think you completely missed the point though. Government workers work hard and all you read from conservatives is that they should work more for less money and benefits. People are going to leave. Now I know that you and others will probably cheer for the poor people loosing their jobs because all government workers are evil (), but that means the government will have to spend more money to outsource the jobs to the private sector (who will charge more because they need to make a profit over and above costs), so the government simply ends up spending more money (which means that you'll just get madder again).

You've got to actually think these things all the way through instead of stopping halfway through when your "goal" has been accomplished. You need to look at what the other direct effects of those actions are. If you don't look at these other effects (if you're blind to the long-term effects) you're going to end up in a place worse than you were before.


Yep. People seem to forget that one.
What I bolded and underlined above is exactly what got me to stop being a Republican. It didn't make me a Democrat because of their view on abortion, but it did make me angry at the Republican party and its ideology. Unfortunately, due to the protestant-style black or white thinking around here, I'm calumniated by being called a Democrat. Pretty sickening, isn't it?
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  #51  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:21 am
iamrefreshed iamrefreshed is offline
 
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by curlycool89 View Post


I think you completely missed the point though. Government workers work hard and all you read from conservatives is that they should work more for less money and benefits. People are going to leave. Now I know that you and others will probably cheer for the poor people loosing their jobs because all government workers are evil (), but that means the government will have to spend more money to outsource the jobs to the private sector (who will charge more because they need to make a profit over and above costs), so the government simply ends up spending more money (which means that you'll just get madder again).

You've got to actually think these things all the way through instead of stopping halfway through when your "goal" has been accomplished. You need to look at what the other direct effects of those actions are. If you don't look at these other effects (if you're blind to the long-term effects) you're going to end up in a place worse than you were before.


Yep. People seem to forget that one.
Oh, it time for the scary 'without us you'll spend more' tactic!
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  #52  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:28 am
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

How refreshing! I feel the same way. The anti-labor, anti-little guy, anti-public employee, anti-environment, and anti-regulatory sentiments of GOP thinking are sad and destructive IMO. I also hate the fact that there is an undercurrent of racism in many quarters of the GOP. Guys like Hayley Barbour and the Tea Party crowds that think Obama is a monkey boy from Africa and all the citizenship of Obama paranoia is scary stuff. The idea that all our $$$ should go to defense with nothing for social security or medicare, pensions for public employees is evil, pollute the air, fight for the constitution until it becomes inconvenient to do so, carry guns to churches, de-regulate everything, make it next to impossible to unionize, fight for the crooked insurance companies, defend the CEO's, wear little American flag pins on the lapel and sing God Bless America while you support outsourcing jobs to Bangladesh, yeah, real patriotic.

The Dems support abortion, gay marriage, and other social evils as well as several goofy and outlandish ideas. They're dangerous, too. But I find both parties a menace to liberty and morality. You are correct that the vast majority in here support the GOP and there, sadly, is a real rancor against organized labor in here at times. Being a union man and a union rep, I am proud to say I'm union. No apologies, no regrets, no guilt. I voted for Jerry Brown and sure am glad he got elected. We won't have a nutty governor who tries to destroy our collective bargaining here...thank God! I pity Wisconsin public employees....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCMS_No_More View Post
What I bolded and underlined above is exactly what got me to stop being a Republican. It didn't make me a Democrat because of their view on abortion, but it did make me angry at the Republican party and its ideology. Unfortunately, due to the protestant-style black or white thinking around here, I'm calumniated by being called a Democrat. Pretty sickening, isn't it?
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  #53  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:31 am
iamrefreshed iamrefreshed is offline
 
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
How refreshing! I feel the same way. The anti-labor, anti-little guy, anti-public employee, anti-environment, and anti-regulatory sentiments of GOP thinking are sad and destructive IMO. I also hate the fact that there is an undercurrent of racism in many quarters of the GOP. Guys like Hayley Barbour and the Tea Party crowds that think Obama is a monkey boy from Africa and all the citizenship of Obama paranoia is scary stuff. The idea that all our $$$ should go to defense with nothing for social security or medicare, pensions for public employees is evil, pollute the air, fight for the constitution until it becomes inconvenient to do so, carry guns to churches, de-regulate everything, make it next to impossible to unionize, fight for the crooked insurance companies, defend the CEO's, wear little American flag pins on the lapel and sing God Bless America while you support outsourcing jobs to Bangladesh, yeah, real patriotic.

The Dems support abortion, gay marriage, and other social evils as well as several goofy and outlandish ideas. They're dangerous, too. But I find both parties a menace to liberty and morality. You are correct that the vast majority in here support the GOP and there, sadly, is a real rancor against organized labor in here at times. Being a union man and a union rep, I am proud to say I'm union. No apologies, no regrets, no guilt. I voted for Jerry Brown and sure am glad he got elected. We won't have a nutty governor who tries to destroy our collective bargaining here...thank God! I pity Wisconsin public employees....
There it is.....we're now racists!

Way to pull the race card!
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  #54  
Old Feb 20, '11, 10:32 am
K-McD's Avatar
K-McD K-McD is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
How refreshing! I feel the same way. The anti-labor, anti-little guy, anti-public employee, anti-environment, and anti-regulatory sentiments of GOP thinking are sad and destructive IMO. I also hate the fact that there is an undercurrent of racism in many quarters of the GOP. Guys like Hayley Barbour and the Tea Party crowds that think Obama is a monkey boy from Africa and all the citizenship of Obama paranoia is scary stuff. The idea that all our $$$ should go to defense with nothing for social security or medicare, pensions for public employees is evil, pollute the air, fight for the constitution until it becomes inconvenient to do so, carry guns to churches, de-regulate everything, make it next to impossible to unionize, fight for the crooked insurance companies, defend the CEO's, wear little American flag pins on the lapel and sing God Bless America while you support outsourcing jobs to Bangladesh, yeah, real patriotic.

The Dems support abortion, gay marriage, and other social evils as well as several goofy and outlandish ideas. They're dangerous, too. But I find both parties a menace to liberty and morality. You are correct that the vast majority in here support the GOP and there, sadly, is a real rancor against organized labor in here at times. Being a union man and a union rep, I am proud to say I'm union. No apologies, no regrets, no guilt. I voted for Jerry Brown and sure am glad he got elected. We won't have a nutty governor who tries to destroy our collective bargaining here...thank God! I pity Wisconsin public employees....
Blind obedience to unions.
__________________
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The absence of morality leads to the enslavement of laws. -- Me

Servent of God, Fr. Capodanno, pray for him.

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  #55  
Old Feb 20, '11, 11:00 am
bbarrick8383 bbarrick8383 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
Blind obedience to unions.
Yes and I think you lose the little guy card the minute you join a union as well. I'm more of a little guy than any union member ever will be.
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  #56  
Old Feb 20, '11, 11:28 am
Rich Olszewski Rich Olszewski is offline
 
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by bbarrick8383 View Post
They were conservative?
Yes, they are. The term is used just the same way you use liberals - as a blanket term for everything you see as bad in our country.
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  #57  
Old Feb 20, '11, 12:01 pm
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curlycool89 curlycool89 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by iamrefreshed View Post
Oh, it time for the scary 'without us you'll spend more' tactic!
Do you have anything relevant to add to the discussion? Just poking in and "scoring points" doesn't actually count as an argument. It just makes it seem like you have nothing to back up your points and therefore try and make cheap shots to make up for that fact to try and make people forget that you don't have any points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
Blind obedience to unions.
And that's different from blind obedience to party how exactly? The answer in your head is because your in favour of the party therefore the party is always right and because they say unions are evil then unions are evil. So much for actually thinking for yourself.
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  #58  
Old Feb 20, '11, 1:01 pm
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by curlycool89 View Post
And that's different from blind obedience to party how exactly? The answer in your head is because your in favour of the party therefore the party is always right and because they say unions are evil then unions are evil. So much for actually thinking for yourself.
What party? Jumping to assumptions, are we? Being judgmental? Stick to the facts.
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  #59  
Old Feb 20, '11, 1:05 pm
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curlycool89 curlycool89 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by K-McD View Post
What party? Jumping to assumptions, are we? Being judgmental? Stick to the facts.
If not a party then political ideology then.
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  #60  
Old Feb 20, '11, 2:01 pm
bbarrick8383 bbarrick8383 is offline
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Default Re: Could Minnesota See Similar Union Fights As Wisconsin?

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Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski View Post
Yes, they are. The term is used just the same way you use liberals - as a blanket term for everything you see as bad in our country.
Quote:
If not a party then political ideology then.
I don't see conservatives as sticking to a political ideology so much as just trying to stick to a way of life, if it works leave it alone type of mentality.

Your comment got me to thinking Rich, and I started to respond with something along the lines of the political alignment of the bankers didn't matter since it was the liberals who were forcing them to make loans they knew were going to default sooner or later.

But it's much deeper than that, and I can see it in every corner of this country where the liberal ideology is entrenched.

Liberals like to compare test scores with those of other countries and complain about the education. But what's the point in getting an education if you can drop out of high school, have a good time, get a GED and go to work for the UAW making what a college graduate should be making?

I see this throughout the liberal way of thinking, it's an unintended consequence of their beliefs. Not only are they taking away the desire to succeed, but the need to succeed. What's the point of having an IRA, or 401k I have social security and with a lack of decent education I reckon many people out there are thinking they will retire on their SS, so why save?

Let me blow my tax refund check on electronics and other wants, I have welfare to take care of everything else.

Do you realize that in this country a family of 5 making 40,000 a year will get over 7,000 dollars just for filing their income taxes?

I do blame liberals, they are the icons of pop culture and they drag kids down to their ideology where they change the name of murdering children to abortion because it doesn't seem so violent then. They debate on whether or not a fetus is even human, or what stage it begins to feel pain.

Many liberals hold Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro on a pedestal and try to convince Americans that they are decent people just doing what they need to do for their country.

Yea, I'd say I blame liberals for the downfall of morals in our society. As the morals fall so does everything else.
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