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  #1  
Old Feb 22, '11, 7:34 am
Flannelfunk Flannelfunk is offline
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Question Laws of God

Recently I have realized my commitment to God wasnt as strong as I thought it was. I am not "all in" so to speak. I believe I am lukewarm or pretty close to it (without knowing I was picking that direction). I have been fighting old habits and losing for a while now.

Anyway, the point of this is that I remember reading somewhere in the Bible about loving God is loving the law. I was wondering how you go about loving the laws of the Lord. I dont really know what I am looking for and how much of the old law I am held to or not held too becuase of St. Pual's statements in the NT. Pretty much looking for a Catholic study guide or a course or some kind of reliable direction.

Thank you everyone.

FF
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  #2  
Old Feb 22, '11, 8:35 am
ryanoneil ryanoneil is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

I'm not sure about a study guide. The spirit of the entire OT is summarized in the golden rule. Love of God and neighbor is living our life like the life of Jesus.

He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." (Mt 22:37-40)

Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8-10)

Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)
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  #3  
Old Feb 22, '11, 9:02 am
Thoughtfulone Thoughtfulone is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanoneil View Post
I'm not sure about a study guide. The spirit of the entire OT is summarized in the golden rule. Love of God and neighbor is living our life like the life of Jesus.

He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." (Mt 22:37-40)

Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8-10)

Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)
I would have thought so too, but the CC sure has a lot of rules that seem to have nothing to do with this commandment the breaking of which can apparently send one straight to hell.
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  #4  
Old Feb 22, '11, 9:14 am
cfrancis cfrancis is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

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Originally Posted by Thoughtfulone View Post
I would have thought so too, but the CC sure has a lot of rules that seem to have nothing to do with this commandment the breaking of which can apparently send one straight to hell.
I view the Church as aiding us in eschewing self and loving God and neighbor wholeheartedly.
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  #5  
Old Feb 22, '11, 9:38 am
davidv davidv is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flannelfunk View Post
Recently I have realized my commitment to God wasnt as strong as I thought it was. I am not "all in" so to speak. I believe I am lukewarm or pretty close to it (without knowing I was picking that direction). I have been fighting old habits and losing for a while now.

Anyway, the point of this is that I remember reading somewhere in the Bible about loving God is loving the law. I was wondering how you go about loving the laws of the Lord. I dont really know what I am looking for and how much of the old law I am held to or not held too becuase of St. Pual's statements in the NT. Pretty much looking for a Catholic study guide or a course or some kind of reliable direction.

Thank you everyone.

FF
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One of the ways we demonstrate our love is through obedience. The first step in obedience is to listen so we may know what is expected.

I think a great resource for listenning, that is aligned with the ten commandments is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, beginning at article 2052.

A prayerful consideration of Psalm 119 might alos be helpful.
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  #6  
Old Feb 22, '11, 10:06 am
Flannelfunk Flannelfunk is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

I guess I was looking for a look at the old testiment laws with a reason for the law (like hygene or spiritually) and i guess why we should love it... i hope that helps.
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  #7  
Old Feb 22, '11, 10:16 am
cfrancis cfrancis is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

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Originally Posted by Flannelfunk View Post
I guess I was looking for a look at the old testiment laws with a reason for the law (like hygene or spiritually) and i guess why we should love it... i hope that helps.
That does help! First, Christ fulfilled all of the law - the moral (10 Commandments) and the Levitical (the 613 - I think - added laws) so that we do not have to do so perfectly. We are under grace, not the law.
The two commandments Christ gave us - "Love the Lord your God with all your...love your neighbor as you love yourself" - are the ethos of the ethics of the 10 Commandments. Hence His admonitions in the Sermon on the Mount - being angry violates the 5th commandment, looking lustfully violates the 6th commandment, etc....
I'm struggling to find the words to express my thoughts...
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  #8  
Old Feb 22, '11, 10:45 am
Flannelfunk Flannelfunk is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

you were doing good, it just didnt seem like you completed it...
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  #9  
Old Feb 22, '11, 10:46 am
ryanoneil ryanoneil is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

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Originally Posted by Thoughtfulone View Post
I would have thought so too, but the CC sure has a lot of rules that seem to have nothing to do with this commandment the breaking of which can apparently send one straight to hell.
It would appear that way, but appearances can be decieving. There were the different "steward parables" of Christ that seemed to have all kinds of rules and damnation also. But more than than anything, Christ spoke of God's mercy and forgiveness. I don't have all the answers. From this Sunday's reading.

Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God. (1 Cor 4:1-5)
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  #10  
Old Feb 22, '11, 10:55 am
cfrancis cfrancis is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flannelfunk View Post
you were doing good, it just didnt seem like you completed it...
At issue is the difference between being "under the law" and "under grace".
Under the law, full obedience to the law was meant to obligate God: I did this, now you must do this. Of course, no one can ever place the Creator under obligation, so there no fulfillment of the law.
Until Christ and His grace.
Now the law is fulfilled. Our obedience is the "obedience of faith" and love. To paraphrase Rosalind Moss: When Rosalind was a child, her mother would let her help with the baking even though it would mean that much more time in the kitchen than if her mother baked on her own. But Rosalind loved her mother, loved being with her and loved helping her, and her mother loved her help and out of love, wanted to teach her. That is us under His grace. We are not perfect, but we will try our best, knowing that our perfection is in Christ.
Under the law, God expects us as 6-yr-olds to bake the cake without assistance and to get it right.
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  #11  
Old Feb 22, '11, 11:57 am
ryanoneil ryanoneil is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

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Originally Posted by Flannelfunk View Post
I guess I was looking for a look at the old testiment laws with a reason for the law (like hygene or spiritually) and i guess why we should love it... i hope that helps.
In a general way, the law was temporary for the nation of Israel to seperate them from the sins of the Gentiles. Everytime they were with Gentiles they got into sin and idol worship and such. So the law was a way for them to immitate the holiness of God and be distinct from the sins of Gentiles. They were to love the law because they loved the holiness of God more than thier sins. But in many ways some people lost the spirit of the law and they were more worried about things like ritually cleanliness so they could offer a proper sacrifice (for example).

But Christ came to write the law on our hearts instead of stone. There is no seperation of Jew or Gentile. The temporary national phase was ending. We are all neighbors. Even those who we consider enemies or foreigners. The standard of righteousness, immitating God in being holy, is continued in the New Covenant. But the moral righteousness is even higher because we are also called to immitate God's "perfect" compassion and mercy to everyone.

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Mt 5:43-48)

It's not about prefering the the sacrificial regulations of the Mosaic law and seperating ourselves. It is about following Christ's example of eating with sinners who fulfilled Israel's original vocation of reaching out to the nations with the light of God's divine mercy.

While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" He heard this and said, "Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. Go and learn the meaning of the words, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' I did not come to call the righteous but sinners." (Mt 9:10-13)

The purity laws for the purpose of legal sacrifice, for example, don't allow us to pass by a half-dead victim. There is a new standard of holiness, where God no longer requires his people to separate from others. We are called to extend mercy to everyone in need.

There was a scholar of the law who stood up to test him and said, "Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He said in reply, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." He replied to him, "You have answered correctly; do this and you will live." But because he wished to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" Jesus replied, "A man fell victim to robbers as he went down from Jerusalem to Jericho. They stripped and beat him and went off leaving him half-dead. A priest happened to be going down that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. Likewise a Levite came to the place, and when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. (Lk 10:25-32)

The priest and Levite didn't have the love for neighbor along with the love for God because the letter of the law was in the way.

But a Samaritan traveler who came upon him was moved with compassion at the sight. He approached the victim, poured oil and wine over his wounds and bandaged them. Then he lifted him up on his own animal, took him to an inn and cared for him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper with the instruction, 'Take care of him. If you spend more than what I have given you, I shall repay you on my way back.' Which of these three, in your opinion, was neighbor to the robbers' victim?" He answered, "The one who treated him with mercy." Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise." (Lk 10:33-37)

The Samaritan exemplifies ths new standard of holiness, which is mercy to all. Does this help?

Brothers, even if a person is caught in some transgression, you who are spiritual should correct that one in a gentle spirit, looking to yourself, so that you also may not be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he is deluding himself. (Gal 6:1-3)
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  #12  
Old Feb 24, '11, 8:39 pm
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

I have a couple answers to the original question.

Yeah. I know that by reading the Torah (Gen,Ex,Lev,Num, Deut) you and I can get the impression that -- there it is God's revelation. It's just that simple. Have a good life. So, how do we turn the corner into Christianity?

Psalm 1 is the key to the remainder of the Psalms. If you don't buy into it, if you're not with the program of Psalm 1, then the rest of them may make no sense.

Judaism calls the commands of the Old Testament mitzvah (plural of mitzvos, as I recall).
Well, the performance of a command is called idiomatically a blessing, because the Jew is blessed in the performance of the command. I've read that they have a small personal ceremony and prayer when they perform a mitzvos. The word also carries the mean of "connection" by which they connect to God very intimately.

At the end of their liturgical year, the Jews have a special feast for the receiving of the Torah ("Instruction"). They celebrate that God has revealed to them how to live most appropriately with and for the LORD.

You know, the attitude of a devout Jew is way beyond the idea of compliance with God's commands. God has revealed to us that we are made in His image and likeness and that is a great revelation and a great gift. So also the commands of the covenant which binds or connects us to God.

Psalm 112:1 Hallelujah. Happy is the man who fears the LORD and who is ardently devoted to His commandments.
Psalm 119:11 I have buried Thy law in my heart, that I may not sin against You.

Psalm 119: 62 I arise at midnight to praise You for Your just rules.

Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp for my feet and a light for my path.

Turning to the idea of what Christians must obey.

The general document to read is from the Pontifical Biblical Commission, called "The Jewish People and their Scripture" which can be downloaded from the document library at ewtn.com. This document runs around 115 pages and it covers that idea of how things change after Jesus.

I had a very clear idea of all this a month or two ago, but I'm forgetting the best of the arguments. A very good book which I read in a day (I couldn't put it down) was Dr. Brank Pitre's "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist -- Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper." It covers the transition into the new "testament", the new covenant.

Even Judaism admits that it cannot perform even half of the commands of the Torah, because the Temple (in their thinking) does not exist. They themselves have spiritualized the commands, so that prayer takes the place of animal sacrifice. They have agreed that prayer is the pinacle of human activity -- we have a God who listens to us.
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  #13  
Old Feb 25, '11, 8:22 am
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

I found an old book of Jewish spirituality which is of relevance to this question, about obeying laws of God.

This book is a couple hundred years old and it is called THE PATH OF THE JUST.

Even though the book is less than 200 pages, it has a reading guide to help a person schedule its reading over a year's time.

To the point, I ran across one relevant quote. (in my other post I think I had something backwards. mitzvah "command" is singular, and mitzvos is the plural). To paraphrase,
a person is inclined to obey God's laws, perform the commands, when he/she understand the value of them.

In another place, the book talks about the accomplishment of a young person to come to realize what a joy it is to obey God's laws.

Even at the very first level of spiritual maturity, after one learns the laws and how to obey / perform them, a person can develop a real joy at actually obeying / performing God's commands.

Now, a different but related subject.

I can't remember the exact quote, but it goes something like this. If you obey God's laws because you understand them, then you aren't obeying God's laws but something else that is in your head. We have to obey God's laws whether we understand them or not. You know what I'm trying to say?
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  #14  
Old Feb 26, '11, 6:43 pm
Flannelfunk Flannelfunk is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

Guys I will be reading the replys tommorrow. Thank you for taking the time to reply to me, I have been a little busy but look forword to seeing what you wrote.
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  #15  
Old Feb 27, '11, 8:40 am
Flannelfunk Flannelfunk is offline
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Default Re: Laws of God

I have read your guys responses and it looks like i have a lot of reading a head of me thanks alot guys
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