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  #1  
Old Feb 27, '11, 11:52 am
fieldsparrow fieldsparrow is offline
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Default What happens when we die?

I tried to run a search on this but I'm afraid I'm not very good with the search here.

This is a very basic question. What do Catholics believe happens when we die? Does the soul immediately go to Purgatory, or to Heaven? Or does the soul wait until Christ comes again in judgement?

I was raised Baptist, and the teaching as I understood it was that the faithful immediately went to Heaven, as there is no Purgatory in their teachings.

I wonder about this particularly for the soul of my mother, who died in 2007, and for whose soul I pray each day. But I don't know whether she is now in Purgatory, or possibly Heaven (I could not presume to know that), or whether she is kind of nowhere, awaiting Christ's return.

I hope this isn't too silly of a question to ask. I haven't been able to figure it out. Thank you for reading and any insight you might offer.
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  #2  
Old Feb 27, '11, 12:45 pm
Lancer Lancer is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

FYI...Catechism of The Catholic Church...see paragraphs...
ARTICLE 12: "I BELIEVE IN LIFE EVERLASTING"
1021-1022 I. The Particular Judgement
1023-1029 II. Heaven
1030-1032 III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory
1033-1037 IV. Hell
1038-1041 V. The Last Judgement
1042-1050 VI. The Hope of the New Heaven and the New Earth
1051-1060 IN BRIEF
1061-1065 "Amen"

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/

Here are a couple to "wet your apetite"...so to speak.
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Quote:
I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT
1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.596
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597

592 Cf. 2 Tim 1:9-10.
593 Cf. Lk 16:22; 23:43; Mt 16:26; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:23; Heb 9:27; 12:23.
594 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274)DS 857-858; Council of Florence (1439)DS 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563)DS 1820.
595 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336)DS 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne super his (1334)DS 990.
596 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336)DS 1002.
597 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.
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Old Feb 27, '11, 1:08 pm
fieldsparrow fieldsparrow is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Thank you. I am reading this now.

Some things I wonder about.

My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul? It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.

And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet. I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet. It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.

I know that these aren't really questions that can be answered by men, as only God can judge what is in our souls and hearts, but as I wait to be received into the Church I do wonder.
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  #4  
Old Feb 27, '11, 1:55 pm
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Carlan Carlan is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
Thank you. I am reading this now.

Some things I wonder about.

My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul? It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.

And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet. I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet. It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.

I know that these aren't really questions that can be answered by men, as only God can judge what is in our souls and hearts, but as I wait to be received into the Church I do wonder.
We pray and trust God for the souls of our loved ones who have gone before us, continue to pray for the gift of grace to trust God completely for your Mom.
To reconcile with the Father for past unconfessed mortal sin, go before God repenting with perfect contrition now, promising to seek Sacramental confession and absolution as soon as you are possibly able. I also suggest you talk to your Priest privately about your concerns in this area,
God bless you in your journey Fieldsparrow and peace to you, Carlan
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Old Feb 27, '11, 7:57 pm
RHannosh619 RHannosh619 is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

I don't think you should worry too much, why because as long as you have your mind set on God, and doing what pleases him, you will be alright. You might not have been physically baptized into the Catholic Church yet, but if you were to die before than, then you would be baptized BY DESIRE. That is also a valid form of baptism that the Catholic Church acknowledges.

That is something that is for ALL Non-Catholics. Heck, even GOOD moraled buddhists or Muslims who don't know any better can enter heaven by wanting to live a moral life, these would be examples of baptism by desire. Even if they don't know it!

Don't worry Brother!
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  #6  
Old Feb 27, '11, 9:26 pm
Nita Nita is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
Thank you. I am reading this now.

Some things I wonder about.

My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul? It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.
You can pray for her by just speaking to God as you spoke to us in your post -- eg. Dear Lord/Jesus/God, I pray that You grant my mother eternal joy and peace, praising You eternally in heaven.

You can pray for her by offering up more formal prayers (Mass, rosary, stations of the cross, liturgy of hours, ...) for the intention of the salvation of her soul. You just make the intention -- usually interiorly. Eg. "Jesus, I wish to offer this rosary for my mother's salvation."
Then you just pray the rosary in the normal way, reciting the prayers and meditating on the particular mysteries.

Quote:
And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet. I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet. It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.

I know that these aren't really questions that can be answered by men, as only God can judge what is in our souls and hearts, but as I wait to be received into the Church I do wonder.
Your Protestant baptism was very probably a valid baptism. If not, and you were to die before being validly baptized with water, you would receive Baptism of Desire as RHannosh619 (post #5) noted.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
#1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3M.HTM

Last edited by Nita; Feb 27, '11 at 9:37 pm.
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  #7  
Old Feb 27, '11, 9:51 pm
Third Day Third Day is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
=fieldsparrow;7601599] Some things I wonder about. My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul?
Talk to your priest and offer up a Mass on her behalf. You don't have to be Catholic to do that.

Quote:
It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.
Pray for her and offer up any sufferings that you have in this life for her soul. It is never too late. God always knew that you would one day seek His Church and would offer a Mass and pray for her soul. God is outside of time as is purgatory. Your prayers were heard before you ever said them.

Quote:
And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet.I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet.
God brought you to His Church and he would not abandon you if you were to die today.

Quote:
It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.
"Seek first His kingdom and his righteousness and all these things shall be yours as well. Therefore do not be anxious about tommorrow, for tommorrow will be anxious for itself." Matthew 6:33
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  #8  
Old Feb 27, '11, 11:59 pm
fieldsparrow fieldsparrow is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Thanks for the answers. I appreciate them. I try to worry less day by day but still fight with anxiety, which can be a little overboard sometimes.
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  #9  
Old Feb 28, '11, 4:39 pm
fieldsparrow fieldsparrow is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

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Originally Posted by Third Day View Post
Pray for her and offer up any sufferings that you have in this life for her soul. It is never too late. God always knew that you would one day seek His Church and would offer a Mass and pray for her soul. God is outside of time as is purgatory. Your prayers were heard before you ever said them.
I am rereading all of this today and thinking on it and this is so interesting to me. I will be calling the parish office to see how one requests a Mass to be offered.

Thank you all again for your comforting words and insight into the Catechism on this topic. I have to admit I was having a slight panic attack yesterday, to which I am prone, and this bubbled up as something at the top of my mind. With everyday prayer these are lessened but they still happen sometimes.
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  #10  
Old Feb 28, '11, 5:53 pm
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ClamDigger ClamDigger is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
I tried to run a search on this but I'm afraid I'm not very good with the search here.

This is a very basic question. What do Catholics believe happens when we die? Does the soul immediately go to Purgatory, or to Heaven? Or does the soul wait until Christ comes again in judgement?

I was raised Baptist, and the teaching as I understood it was that the faithful immediately went to Heaven, as there is no Purgatory in their teachings.

I wonder about this particularly for the soul of my mother, who died in 2007, and for whose soul I pray each day. But I don't know whether she is now in Purgatory, or possibly Heaven (I could not presume to know that), or whether she is kind of nowhere, awaiting Christ's return.

I hope this isn't too silly of a question to ask. I haven't been able to figure it out. Thank you for reading and any insight you might offer.
When we die, we are immediately judged by God and sentenced to either heaven, hell, or purgatory. If we die in a state of grace, we will go to either heaven or purgatory (to be purified so that we can enter heaven). If we do not, we will most likely go to hell.
In the last judgment, our souls will be reunited with our bodies and our full person will either go to heaven or hell for eternity (Matthew 25.46).
We know that there are already souls in heaven because the Bible mentions the saints interceding before God before the final judgment in Revelation 5.8. We know there is a purgatory because a "purification by fire" is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3.15. Finally, we know there are already souls in hell based on Jesus' parable of Lazarus in which the rich man goes to hell for his discourtesy to Lazarus in Luke 16.24.
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Old Feb 28, '11, 9:28 pm
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ClamDigger ClamDigger is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul? It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.
I'm sure your mother is eligible for heaven if she truly loved God in the best way she knew. I pray for my maternal grandmother, who was not Catholic, to be released from purgatory if she is there. There is a prayer from St. Gertrude for the souls in purgatory that goes, "Eternal Father, I offer thee the Most Precious Blood of thy Divine Son Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in purgatory. Amen." There is also the Requiem, which goes, "Eternal rest grant unto (in your case, my mother), O Lord, and let eternal light rest upon her. May she rest in peace. Amen." And of course the rosary is the most powerful prayer we can say for any request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet. I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet. It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.
If you were to die now, you would go to heaven because you have already experienced the desire to be baptized which constitutes a "baptism of desire". There is actually a saint in the church who was never formally baptized! St. Agnes' sister (who's name, unfortunately, escapes me at the moment) was a catechumen who went to visit her sister's tomb and was martyred for doing so. In this case, it was both a baptism of desire (because of her longing for baptism) and a baptism in blood (because of her martyrdom for the faith before she could be formally baptized). So, you're good to go if you... er... go!
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Old Mar 1, '11, 4:15 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

I have discussed end of life matters with my priest I consult for catholic education. Over and over he reminds me that God is not bound by the laws he gives man to follow. If he desires it, it will be.
Ask your priest to help you with this question.

I am sorry about your loss.
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Old Mar 1, '11, 4:56 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsparrow View Post
Thank you. I am reading this now.

Some things I wonder about.

My mother, who was raised RC but did not receive the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before she died. I know that none of us on earth can know what happens, but I pray that she may still be eligible for Purgatory and Heaven, as I know she never turned her back on God even through all the trials of her life and painful death. How should I pray for her soul? It is all up to God's will but if I could ask one thing of God it would be that my mother should find eternal joy and peace in praising God eternally.

And me? What if I were to die today? I am still in RCIA, still only a Candidate. I have been baptized, but as a Protestant. I believe in the Church and in the grace of Christ but have not been able to make confession or be confirmed yet. I have accepted the grace of Jesus Christ but am not in accord with the Church yet. It causes me some anxiety because nobody knows the hour of their own death, and so I find I kind of want to rush through the process. If I acknowledge the death of Christ as the ultimate sacrifice, and the source of our grace, but I still have not made Confession... it just worries me.

I know that these aren't really questions that can be answered by men, as only God can judge what is in our souls and hearts, but as I wait to be received into the Church I do wonder.
The following might strike some as heretical. It might be, but I doubt it since it was propounded by St Therese of Lisieux who is deemed a Doctor of the Church. Rightly, then, I think it would be regarded as worthy of belief, but not mandatory.

She did not contradict what the Catechism says, but can be thought of as perhaps adding some detail to it. She believed that, at the moment of death, we are presented with all of our sins in all their horrific reality. The reality of them is much worse than we tell ourselves here. We are, upon that confrontation, at the edge of despair or anger and hatred against God for portraying us in that manner, even though we know it's the absolute truth. We are then presented with God's forgiveness, which we can accept (accepting the fullness of our guilt by doing it) or reject. We have as clear a choice as can possibly be imagined; not an emotional thing at all, but crystal clear. We can choose to accept forgiveness and God's love or we can reject it, choosing our own "egos" and our own pride and elect to live with ourselves as "gods" forever, knowing as we will how utterly inadequate that is. But our hatred at being dependent on God's mercy causes us to choose ourselves. And that is hell.

Hard to think anyone would ever choose to reject forgiveness and God's love and choose hell, but she maintained that everybody in hell is a volunteer who chose self-worship and self love over the worship of God and of His love. We can sort of imagine someone doing that. We have seen how prideful people can get, and how self-justifying when they surely know they're wrong. Some people, she would say, do it in the ultimate sense, and would not choose God even if they had a hundred thousand opportunities. Once their decision is made, it's so clear they would never change. Hard to picture, but imaginable.

Worth thinking about, for sure, because in life we would really want to do as Jesus taught and "become as little children"; becoming accepting, purging ourselves as much as we can manage of pride and self-justification and ingratitude.

Now, about praying for the dead. Some might challenge this, but I don't think anyone can really demonstrate that it's wrong. One previous poster touched on it. For God, there is no time. No past, no future. Everything is immediately present to God. If we pray today, can it not perhaps result in God's sending grace for a person whose life we think of as in the past? And could that person "in the past" not accept that grace and act differently at least
to the extent of not fully consenting to a sin that might otherwise be entirely blameworthy? If we don't think God can do that, then we really are denying God's omnipotence. We are encouraged by almost everything God or the saints ever said to us to pray, and to do so unceasingly. To say God would not answer as regards things as vital as the salvation of a soul is to question God's mercy.

(continued)
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Old Mar 1, '11, 4:56 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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(continued)
Now, I'm going to say something just because of your religious background, and I trust you will take no offense to it. I have long thought, (and I'm not alone in thinking it) that one of the real tragedies of protestantism is its tendency (shared by many Catholics, unfortunately) to think of God in a timeline like our own. "Saved or not saved" is a time concept. "Immediately to heaven or hell" is a time concept. "Jesus died for us, once and for all." is a time concept. One of the things I like most to think about at Mass (to the extent my human brain is capable of it) is to let time go away. For that hour or so, we can be outside that narrow track of time we live on the rest of the time. The Eucharist is, indeed, Jesus' sacrifice. It wasn't once. It isn't even back in 33AD and at the Mass. It's always. God acts eternally as well as lives eternally. His sacrifice for us is always. He suffers for us now, today. He always did, and He always will, because whatever He wills is eternal reality. His presence in the Eucharist is also heaven right now, today. When He invites us into His presence, and into His life, it's always. Because we do live in time, He gives us certain gifts to help us escape it momentarily just as we will escape it forever at our death.

And the Church gives us a hand with that too, and we ought to accept the gift as given. Protestant churches almost always have a bare cross exhibited somewhere prominently. That signifies the timeline. Jesus died for us, once and for all, and He's no longer on the cross, and we were "saved" (more or less...depends on the denomination) by that salvific act. In Catholic churches, by and large, Jesus is shown crucified. That's to signify the eternity of His sacrifice. Remember, there is no "time" with God. Once He chose to sacrifice, His sacrifice is forever.

Protestant churches are typically unadorned. Part of that "graven images" thing, but it's more than that. This earth is not heaven, it tells us. This is a bare barn we're in on this earth, and we ought not to concede anything to the senses in our worship. We ought not allow ourselves to dream and to imagine. We have a job to do, and the church is our "office" for doing it. Catholic churches (again, sometimes they lose the message) encourage us, usually, to step out of time; to see saints, if only images of them, to see angels, to see glory that is a poor reflection of God's glory but can bring it to our minds.
Byzantine churches, of course, can be even more like that, and I think it's legitimate.

We're so imprisoned in our "time capsules" and if we want to contemplate eternity, we really need to be serious about it.

Hope that doesn't all seem too strange. Be of good cheer.
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Old Mar 1, '11, 5:01 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: What happens when we die?

A thought provoking reply rr.
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