Vocations and Allegations of Sexual Abuse - Page 2

CrazyRachel · #16 Mar 4, '11, 4:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by coco2

I know it seems unfair, but due to the priests who HAVE harmed children and the bishops who moved them around, now the Church MUST side with the victim immediately. What is worse? To remove a priest from active ministry and reinstate him when found not guilty, OR possibly allow another child to be molested by a priest they allow to remain working until proven guilty? I'm afraid the clergy must suffer this in reparation for those priests who harmed children which in turn harmed the Church.

I know what you mean, and as for the clergy, the genuinely good priests we have world over, who are suffering in reparation for the bad priests who have harmed kids, are suffering with great grace, dignity and courage. Many a great saint has paid pennance for the sins of others and thats what the good priests are now doing. I have friends who are top quality priests and evey time I hear a sick joke about priests being pedophiles (usually told by someone who'd be happy to pick up their moral pitch fork and join the angry mob publically when someone is accused but doesnt mind privately making cheap jokes at the expense of some poor kid who has genuinely been abused) I think of my friends who are good and decent Christian men and I feel so angry and hurt that people will look at them and make unfair judgements about them, and yet the priests deal with it better than I do lol.

Hopemercy · #17 Mar 7, '11, 1:24 am

Here in Ireland the percentage is nearer 70 % than one.

Too much sweeping things under the carpet and too much defensiveness..

Mass attendance in Dublin as a consequence is down to 3 % now.

The Catechism says that sin in any one part of the Chruch affects the whole Church and we are seeing the fruit of that sin here now.

The victims must come first if we are to be truly Catholic. And there can be no defensiveness. Only humility now will avail.

Orogeny · #18 Mar 7, '11, 5:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopemercy

Here in Ireland the percentage is nearer 70 % than one.

Interesting. I had not heard that statistic before. At least 37% of priests molested children in Ireland? I don't suppose you have a study that can show me those statistics, do you?

Quote:

Mass attendance in Dublin as a consequence is down to 3 % now.

What was Mass attendance in Dublin before the scandal broke?

Peace

Tim

Hopemercy · #19 Mar 7, '11, 11:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orogeny

Interesting. I had not heard that statistic before. At least 37% of priests molested children in Ireland? I don't suppose you have a study that can show me those statistics, do you?What was Mass attendance in Dublin before the scandal broke?

Peace

Tim

I checked the figures last night ... via the main Reports done here. In fact the figure of priests who abused is just over 79 %.

Not sure re the stats before the abuse, but a generation ago all the main Churches in Dubin were crowded at every Mass and on Sundays there was a mass every hour. google Archbishop Martin whose words are a lone voice crying in the wilderness here now as each Diocese is losing priests to death and almost none being ordained. The situation here now is very bad indeed. Caused by the abuse.

Orogeny · #20 Mar 8, '11, 5:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopemercy

I checked the figures last night ... via the main Reports done here. In fact the figure of priests who abused is just over 79 %.

Any chance you can point me to the official studies that give that number? Are those priests that have been proven to have abused or does it include those who have been accused?

Quote:

Not sure re the stats before the abuse, but a generation ago all the main Churches in Dubin were crowded at every Mass and on Sundays there was a mass every hour. google Archbishop Martin whose words are a lone voice crying in the wilderness here now as each Diocese is losing priests to death and almost none being ordained. The situation here now is very bad indeed. Caused by the abuse.

Well, a generation ago isn't when the scandal broke. That happened in the last couple of years, I believe. What was Mass attendance 5 years ago? 10 years ago? My guess is that Mass attendance was way less 10 years ago than it was a generation ago.

Peace

Tim

**Friar David, O.Carm** · #21 Mar 8, '11, 5:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orogeny

Any chance you can point me to the official studies that give that number? Are those priests that have been proven to have abused or does it include those who have been accused?

I would also be interested in seeing the actual study. Are the results that 79% of the priests in Ireland were sexual abusers? How is "sexual abuse" defined? As you said, is this a list of those guilty or of those guilty and accused.

Also what is the time frame of the study? Are they counting cases from 20 years ago where the priest is dead against the number of priests we have today?

Another question is do they have an actual list of names for these priests or is it possible they have double or triple, or even more, counted? That is two people say they were abused by priests but the study does not get any names and counts this as two cases of abuse when in reality it was one priest who abused two individuals.

79% seems awfully high a number for abuse. Also, what is the margin of error of the study?

Until a link is provided to the actual study being put forward I am going to treat it as hear say and not give it any credence.

dplusr · #22 Mar 10, '11, 7:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thm101

Hi.

Under this circumstances, why should he consider a vocation to the priesthood?

Bye.

Because the vocation to the priesthood or the religious life is not about the individual but rather glorifying God. Should the priest/sister/brother put Jesus first each and everyday that should not be an issue. In the event you are falsely accused like Jesus was, consider it a privilege to experience a tiny fraction of what He felt and went through for you.

God Bless you as you discern. May the Holy Spirit enlighten you as you strive to follow Jesus.

Yorkshireman · #23 Apr 29, '11, 1:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thm101

Hi.

Let's imagine a young catholic guy out there. This guy is considering a vocation to the priesthood.
He is reflecting on the risks. Why should he reasonably even continue to pursue a possible call from God in this direction if he has to expect the following situation one day:
He has served the Church faithfully for 21 years.
Then he is having a heavy dispute with some of his parishioners.*
Either:
Half a year later, one anonymous caller contacts the diocesan abuse prevention office and tells:
'Priest has molested me 20 years ago at St. John Doe's parish in Farfaraway, Nowhere County, WY.'
The priest gets suspended and will never again be able to serve in a parish. Caller gets new parish priest.
Or:
Half a year later, he gets indicted and sued by A Advocates for sexual abuse 20 years ago at St. Pamela, Dust Creek, Water Valley, HI, gets convicted and has to pay 1 M $ (because a) victims are not to be neglected b) victims don't lie). Diocese get sued, too, and has to pay 100000 $. 'Victim' gets new mansion and another parish priest. A Adocates has expanded it's fortune, too.
He is discouraged by these considerations. He hopes to be ready for physical martyrdom but does not expect to be able to sustain such happenings.*
Under this circumstances, why should he consider a vocation to the priesthood?

Bye.

Well for centuries the most the church did was to move a priest who raped children to another parish. And, as we know from accounts, time and time again the pedophile just took up where he left off.*

Yorkshireman · #24 Apr 29, '11, 1:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopemercy

I checked the figures last night ... via the main Reports done here. In fact the figure of priests who abused is just over 79 %.

Words like "molested" and "abused" are almost euphemisms. What we are usually talking about is the rape of children by priests.

cara1 · #25 Apr 29, '11, 7:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

I would also be interested in seeing the actual study. Are the results that 79% of the priests in Ireland were sexual abusers? How is "sexual abuse" defined? As you said, is this a list of those guilty or of those guilty and accused.

Also what is the time frame of the study? Are they counting cases from 20 years ago where the priest is dead against the number of priests we have today?

Another question is do they have an actual list of names for these priests or is it possible they have double or triple, or even more, counted? That is two people say they were abused by priests but the study does not get any names and counts this as two cases of abuse when in reality it was one priest who abused two individuals.

79% seems awfully high a number for abuse. Also, what is the margin of error of the study?

Until a link is provided to the actual study being put forward I am going to treat it as hear say and not give it any credence.

Byz, you are right to question the stats.
One thing is certain, tho', is the devastation to the RC church in Ireland.

Ireland used to export priests. Now it imports them. Vocations are unbelievably down, worse than in the US or UK. Ditto ordinations. The number of masses is down, but it's hard to know what drives this, mass attendance or priest availability.

The abuse was performed by religious, priests and brothers, much less commonly sisters, tho' the practice of Magdalens suggests that even this represented institutionalized abuse. Physical, verbal, psychological and sexual abuse appears to have been very common among brothers in charge of large institutions of children, especially the Irish Christian Brothers. I am not sure if 70% of the brothers practiced abuse, but it appears to have been widespread.

themonk86 · #26 Apr 29, '11, 8:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffersonD

Well first and foremost priests and really all of us should never put ourselves at risk of being in a situation like that. When I say this I mean that I should never be alone with a woman, teenager, or child. This takes away most of all the risk involved as you always have witnesses around. If you are a priest and have to hear a confession then tell your secretary or someone else so that they know you are hearing a confession. The point is that a priest needs to take safeguards against these things.

Honestly for me hearing about the sex scandals made me want to be a priest even more. I want to but persecuted for the Kingdom of God and I don't care if people spit on me, hate me, kill me what ever I can do for the Kingdom I shall do! The Church needs priests who really want to be priests, who are strong in God and don't care about persecution, who are here to save souls.

That's why we want to be priests and will work our butts off to do so.

God bless

Awesome reply! After hearing about the sex abuse scandal, I too have been taking the call to the priesthood, and to be honest, the priesthood has never seemed so appealing and beautiful to me as it is now.