Callin it quits

[The Exodus]

"Two men had to cross a dangerous bridge. The first convinced himself that it would bear them, and called this conviction Faith. The second said, “Whether it breaks or holds, whether I die here or somewhere else, I am equally in God’s good hands.” And the bridge did break and they were both killed: and the second man’s faith was not disappointed and the first man’s was.”

Philosophy, I think I've come to realize, is the believer's attempt to convince himself that he is the first man. But I suppose it's time for me to admit to myself that I'm the second.

And I'm ok with that now. I've made peace with that.

I appreciate everyone on these forums who I've conversed with - whether we've been in agreement or disagreement.

If you feel moved to, listen to old Waylon one time for me. And if the song hits you then I suppose we have a sort of kinship. And if there is a heaven, maybe if we get there we can talk about how little we knew down here on earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2OYuDWbtqw

So long everyone.

[Scoobyshme]

Originally Posted by The Exodus

"Two men had to cross a dangerous bridge. The first convinced himself that it would bear them, and called this conviction Faith. The second said, “Whether it breaks or holds, whether I die here or somewhere else, I am equally in God’s good hands.” And the bridge did break and they were both killed: and the second man’s faith was not disappointed and the first man’s was.”

Philosophy, I think I've come to realize, is the believer's attempt to convince himself that he is the first man. But I suppose it's time for me to admit to myself that I'm the second.

And I'm ok with that now. I've made peace with that.

I appreciate everyone on these forums who I've conversed with - whether we've been in agreement or disagreement.

If you feel moved to, listen to old Waylon one time for me. And if the song hits you then I suppose we have a sort of kinship. And if there is a heaven, maybe if we get there we can talk about how little we knew down here on earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2OYuDWbtqw

So long everyone.

Well, there's a flaw in the case you presented, but since you're going, there's no point in discussing it, I guess.

God bless and I hope you somehow make it to heaven.

[oneplustwo]

Where are you going?

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by Scoobyshme

Well, there's a flaw in the case you presented, but since you're going, there's no point in discussing it, I guess.

God bless and I hope you somehow make it to heaven.

While I haven't really pondered on the "case presented" I don't see a flaw...Care to elaborate for me?

Peace
James

[Thoughtfulone]

Is this a suicide note?

[oneplustwo]

Originally Posted by The Exodus

"Two men had to cross a dangerous bridge. The first convinced himself that it would bear them, and called this conviction Faith. The second said, “Whether it breaks or holds, whether I die here or somewhere else, I am equally in God’s good hands.” And the bridge did break and they were both killed: and the second man’s faith was not disappointed and the first man’s was.”

Will you stay and discuss?

If you think about it, you can't really compare the first man's faith in the bridge to our faith in God, because where the first man's bridge was a physical entity whose condition could be objectively evaluated (we can know for sure that the bridge has broken and we perished on it), the object of our faith in God is God Himself, and we have no way to determine if the thing upon which our faith rests (God Himself) has failed.

As for the second man, he is not quite right because he has forgotten that whether he dies now, or dies in an hour, may make a great deal of difference if he has not yet gone to confession.

[Big Ro]

Originally Posted by Thoughtfulone

Is this a suicide note?

yeah that's how I took it. How do we notify the Mod's??

[Betterave]

Originally Posted by Thoughtfulone

Is this a suicide note?

roflmao (sorry, couldn't help it!)

[Betterave]

Originally Posted by The Exodus

"Two men had to cross a dangerous bridge. The first convinced himself that it would bear them, and called this conviction Faith. The second said, “Whether it breaks or holds, whether I die here or somewhere else, I am equally in God’s good hands.” And the bridge did break and they were both killed: and the second man’s faith was not disappointed and the first man’s was.”

Philosophy, I think I've come to realize, is the believer's attempt to convince himself that he is the first man. But I suppose it's time for me to admit to myself that I'm the second.

So Philosophy is the believer's attempt to convince himself that he is the first man...

In other words, Philosophy is the believer's attempt to convince himself that he has convinced himself that he could safely cross some dangerous bridge or other - and the believer has called the conviction he has convinced himself about Faith, and for some reason his convincing himself about the conviction he calls Faith is what we call Philosophy?

Not sound, I'd say, because it doesn't even make sense.

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by oneplustwo

Will you stay and discuss?

Sure - of course it matters how much there might be to discuss.

If you think about it, you can't really compare the first man's faith in the bridge to our faith in God, because where the first man's bridge was a physical entity whose condition could be objectively evaluated (we can know for sure that the bridge has broken and we perished on it), the object of our faith in God is God Himself, and we have no way to determine if the thing upon which our faith rests (God Himself) has failed.

Interesting since this is not how I read the OP at all. I saw no analogy of the Bridge to God. Rather I saw one person refering to his faith in his own judgement and another person placing his faith in God. The Bridge is merely a "decision point", one of thousands of decision points in our lives.

As for the second man, he is not quite right because he has forgotten that whether he dies now, or dies in an hour, may make a great deal of difference if he has not yet gone to confession.

I totally disagree with this since one who (properly) places all of his trust in God is assured salvation. He may wind up doing considerable time in purgatory but he'll make it.
We can, of course, discuss many "what if's" about the two men's actual faith, the state of there souls and so forth, but taking the OP's case at face value and assuming "pure" faiths, which I'm sure, is the intent of the OP, I dont' see a problem with the second' man's confidence.

Peace
James

[TimothyH]

Originally Posted by Thoughtfulone

Is this a suicide note?

That's how I took it only I didn't find it funny. It has to be taken seriously.

Did anyone listen to the Wayland Jennings song linked? Pretty depressing lyrics.

The OP has definitely got some issues and a glance his profile shows no contact information but two friends, one of whom has a link to an email address and another has a gmail address listed. I have emailed both of them to see if they know this guy.

Guess it's time to pray. What else can we do?

Lord, have mercy.


-Tim-

[grasscutter]

Dear The Exodus:

I hope you're reading this. I pray that Jesus, the angels and the saints will hold you in their arms and comfort you.

God bless you.

[oneplustwo]

Originally Posted by JRKH

I totally disagree with this since one who (properly) places all of his trust in God is assured salvation.

I have not heard salvation taught with these words in the Catholic faith. It is too vague. I believe that the teaching of the Church is that one who dies in a state of mortal sin is condemned to hell, while the one who dies in a state of grace may be saved.

The problem with the second man's confidence is that it seems to suggest to me the idea that there is no response needed from man to God. We go to heaven or hell by our own choice, and I don't think it is safe to suggest man's free will can be ignored.

[Big Ro]

Originally Posted by TimothyH

That's how I took it only I didn't find it funny. It has to be taken seriously.

Did anyone listen to the Wayland Jennings song linked? Pretty depressing lyrics.

The OP has definitely got some issues and a glance his profile shows no contact information but two friends, one of whom has a link to an email address and another has a gmail address listed. I have emailed both of them to see if they know this guy.

Guess it's time to pray. What else can we do?

Lord, have mercy.


-Tim-

I agree. I didn't try to contact the friends although that's a pretty good idea. i did send a message to the Forum Administrator. I'm sure there's way for the powers that be to find this guy. I sincerely hope we are over reacting but this is not a situation to be taken lightly.

[Scoobyshme]

Originally Posted by JRKH

While I haven't really pondered on the "case presented" I don't see a flaw...Care to elaborate for me?

Peace
James

Hey, James!

The first man's faith was not "disappointed." He was happy with whatever happened. In fact, it was really the first man who had faith, not the second. Faith, in this case, isn't meant in the conventional sense, but in the theological sense. Being in "God's good hands" does not in any way mean that everything in this life will be hunky dory. It means that, we will be on the road to eternal salvation. And that's the only thing that counts. When time gives way to eternity, in everyone's lives, they will be, forever, in heaven or hell. Period. Only those die in "God's good hands" end up in heaven.