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  #1  
Old Mar 2, '11, 3:12 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Knights of Columbus

I just joined the Knights of Columbus after years of being asked by a few men at my parish. I am very active and so I got "hit up" many times and finally at one event they literally put the application in my hand and a pen in the other. I told them that I had a full plate but they said that if would be great if I joined since I didn't really have to do any more than what I was already doing. So I signed up.

I knew very little about this organization besides the fact that they are a Catholic men's group and they sponsor dances and pancake breakfasts. So I got a call to attend their 1st degree ceremony. So I went not really knowing what it entailed or what to expect. Now here is where my problem begins. At the very beginning of the ceremony they make us take an oath of secrecy. We are not allowed to tell anyone what takes place in the ceremony, not even our wives. I will not mention anything here but I will say that it was outside of what I had expected.

Now, when I got married I took a vow that my wife and I would become one flesh. This is what the bible teaches and being one means no secrets. How can a couple be united as one if half of the one is hiding things from the other half? Now I am aware that some things that might cause my wife grief I may withhold but not out of secrecy just out of prudence and love.

What kind of Christian organization would not allow a spouse to know what is going on? Isn't marriage all about sharing our lives? Now, I was told that this is done so that future members would be able to experience the ceremonies to the fullest and get the most out of them. Really? I know how the Mass ends and I get the fullest out of it. I know how the bible ends and I read it everyday never feeling diminished. What is up with this secrecy?

Our Church that has been going though a scandal should be transparent and not allow any type of secret organization to be occupying its territory. I am already set on leaving this oragnization and will do so soon. I am just putting this out there if there can be anything that someone can offer me to make me rethink this "interesting" way of having men come together for the betterment of the faith. I find it bizzare and outdated. Any advice?

Oh and if anyone starts bashing me about my concerns then that is an automatic exit for me and will confirm all of my apprehensions............. God bless........... teachccd
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  #2  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:22 pm
Catholic90 Catholic90 is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

First, let me say I am a female. Second, my late DH was a Knight. I was not involved with the Women's League, simply because I did not have time for one more meeting.

When he died, it was the Knights who were the first to call to see what I needed. They were the ones to come over with a crew ready to work on my yard last spring to plant flowers, mow the yard, and generally do the winter clean up. They called every week for several months at the end of his hospitalization and after his death to see what I or my boys needed. They set up a benefit fund for me and my boys and then presented us with a check (quite substantial) to help with expenses. At the funeral, the Knights were there. They formed an honor guard. They gave me a listing of all the masses they requested be said for my husband that THEY set up over the next year.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Knights of Columbus.
  #3  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:24 pm
masuwerte masuwerte is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

I've been asked to join the Knights several times as well, since I attend Mass with my Catholic wife and son. Even if I were Catholic, though, I don't think I'd join an organization that excludes people becasue of their religion. What kind of message would that send to my family, both the Catholics and non-Catholics? I wouldn't join an organization that was limited to Caucasians for the same reason.
  #4  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:36 pm
stephe1987 stephe1987 is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

I think it depends on what the secrecy is for. Maybe they want to surprise people with good deeds or want to do good things but not get credit for them; they are doing it to please God, not for some kind of reward. Unless you are hurting people or are being asked to perform illegal activities I don't see what's so bad about keeping things secret.
  #5  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:36 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Thank you but neither one of you addressed my question about the secrecy of the ceremonies. I have no doubt that they helped out in times of need. I joined because I know what good they do but I cannot get past the secrets that I cannot share with my wife. I have great respect for their community activites but I need someone to address my question about secrets. Thank you......
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  #6  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:39 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephe1987 View Post
I think it depends on what the secrecy is for. Maybe they want to surprise people with good deeds or want to do good things but not get credit for them; they are doing it to please God, not for some kind of reward. Unless you are hurting people or are being asked to perform illegal activities I don't see what's so bad about keeping things secret.

That's my point........ why the secrets since they are not doing anything bad? Why am I sworn to not tell my wife of my experiences? There has to be something that I am not seeing here..............And again I can understand that they want future members to have no idea of what they are doing but I can't tell my wife? And I have to admit that the 1st degree ceremony was outside the box...............
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  #7  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:47 pm
Defender1 Defender1 is offline
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Smile Re: Knights of Columbus

Ok , is it that hard not to tell your spouse about this ? Its not for her to care about anyway .I think you have the wrong idea about us . I am a proud 4th degree knight and like me I believe most of the brothers have no problem dealing with this issue.The knights of Columbus is a wonderful brotherhood Im proud to be a part of . We go to those meetings and vote on who to donate our money to . Its a charities organization dont forget that . We do for the less fortunate. Its more then pancake breakfast . And in case you did not know, the breakfast is to raise funds for our charities. I hope you re consider . Dont let one oath stop you from serving God . The knights is a way for men to serve GOd without becoming priests . Please think about what the organization is . Are you gonna turn down the opportunity of a life time ? By the way you were not supposed to even mention anything whatsoever about any degree.
  #8  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:48 pm
momor momor is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by teachccd View Post
That's my point........ why the secrets since they are not doing anything bad? Why am I sworn to not tell my wife of my experiences? There has to be something that I am not seeing here..............And again I can understand that they want future members to have no idea of what they are doing but I can't tell my wife? And I have to admit that the 1st degree ceremony was outside the box...............
Catholic masonry? Is that what it brings to your mind?
  #9  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:58 pm
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Elizium23 Elizium23 is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Welcome brother Knight, I am glad you have joined and I hope that you will find some niche in the organization and like to stay.

Now about the secrecy. Only the ceremonials of the Order are secret. Our works and membership are not secret, and if you need to talk to someone about ceremonials, find someone who is in your degree or higher and speak to them confidentially. The ceremonials are secret for this reason: the impact of our degree ceremonies are powerful, and their significance is enhanced by not hearing rumor or even fact beforehand. If you forget what it was like in your own degree ceremony, then you are welcome to attend another one of the same ceremonies, in fact it is encouraged that brother Knights support each other when they are initiated. I personally have been to another first degree and I look forward to seeing again the second and third degrees. Believe me when I tell you that you will understand more of the impact of these ceremonies if you choose to progress in the Order.

Anyone in the first degree may attend Knights Council business meetings. These meetings are held regularly, usually once a month. Those in the fourth degree may also attend Assembly meetings. The business meetings are closed because there is discussion and voting that goes on. I am the Warden of my Council, and that means my primary duty is to check and verify all membership cards are current of those in the Council chambers.

Let me reassure you that there is no secrecy enjoined outside of the ceremonials. You are welcome to tell your friends that you are a Knight. You will be subscribed to the magazine, Columbia and you should also receive a news bulletin, KnightLine. These will inform you about all the benefits of the Order and the good works that we do, as well as the latest word from the Supreme Council and the Holy See. The Knights are known as the "strong right arm of the Church." We are actively Pro-Life and we tend to be patriotic (the fourth degree's charism is Patriotism, but that doesn't prevent anyone else from honoring our country.) The Knights are active in many countries around the world, especially in the Americas and the surrounding islands. I hope you grow in solidarity with all our brother Knights as I have.
  #10  
Old Mar 2, '11, 4:58 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender1 View Post
Ok , is it that hard not to tell your spouse about this ? Its not for her to care about anyway .I think you have the wrong idea about us . I am a proud 4th degree knight and like me I believe most of the brothers have no problem dealing with this issue.The knights of Columbus is a wonderful brotherhood Im proud to be a part of . We go to those meetings and vote on who to donate our money to . Its a charities organization dont forget that . We do for the less fortunate. Its more then pancake breakfast . And in case you did not know, the breakfast is to raise funds for our charities. I hope you re consider . Dont let one oath stop you from serving God . The knights is a way for men to serve GOd without becoming priests . Please think about what the organization is . Are you gonna turn down the opportunity of a life time ? By the way you were not supposed to even mention anything whatsoever about any degree.
What did I mention? The secrecy is public knowledge as is everything that I mentioned. Just google what I said and it's all there. I did not go into any specifics. Are you telling me that I cannot serve God outside of their organization? Now that is a bag of goods. I NEVER doubted the good that the Knights do. Your opening statement is what bothers me. It's not for my wife to care about anyway? That is what a wedding vow is all about? Secrets? Is that how the Knights view their wives? You said most brothers have no problem with this but this one does. I can help out charities in many other ways as I have done for many years. I am not a priest and I have been serving God. You have not addressed my question as to why we cannot share this with the very person that we became one with in the sacrament of matrimony. I am not going to argue my point with those here who refuse to address my question. Thank you and your comment of my mentioning anything whatsoever about any degree substantiates the concern that I have here. And I did not mention anything about the 1st degree and if I did please copy and paste it in a reply............
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  #11  
Old Mar 2, '11, 5:05 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizium23 View Post
Welcome brother Knight, I am glad you have joined and I hope that you will find some niche in the organization and like to stay.

Now about the secrecy. Only the ceremonials of the Order are secret. Our works and membership are not secret, and if you need to talk to someone about ceremonials, find someone who is in your degree or higher and speak to them confidentially. The ceremonials are secret for this reason: the impact of our degree ceremonies are powerful, and their significance is enhanced by not hearing rumor or even fact beforehand. If you forget what it was like in your own degree ceremony, then you are welcome to attend another one of the same ceremonies, in fact it is encouraged that brother Knights support each other when they are initiated. I personally have been to another first degree and I look forward to seeing again the second and third degrees. Believe me when I tell you that you will understand more of the impact of these ceremonies if you choose to progress in the Order.

Anyone in the first degree may attend Knights Council business meetings. These meetings are held regularly, usually once a month. Those in the fourth degree may also attend Assembly meetings. The business meetings are closed because there is discussion and voting that goes on. I am the Warden of my Council, and that means my primary duty is to check and verify all membership cards are current of those in the Council chambers.

Let me reassure you that there is no secrecy enjoined outside of the ceremonials. You are welcome to tell your friends that you are a Knight. You will be subscribed to the magazine, Columbia and you should also receive a news bulletin, KnightLine. These will inform you about all the benefits of the Order and the good works that we do, as well as the latest word from the Supreme Council and the Holy See. The Knights are known as the "strong right arm of the Church." We are actively Pro-Life and we tend to be patriotic (the fourth degree's charism is Patriotism, but that doesn't prevent anyone else from honoring our country.) The Knights are active in many countries around the world, especially in the Americas and the surrounding islands. I hope you grow in solidarity with all our brother Knights as I have.
thank you for your kind words but I still cannot understand why I cannot share this with my wife. I would be overjoyed if that aspect were removed. I know about all of the good that the organization performs. Can someone here please tall me why I cannot share this experience with my wife even if she swears not to tell anyone? This seems contrary to a Christian understanding of the sacrament of matrimony. There are millions of guys who will keep secrets from their wives but when we became "one flesh" in marriage I am not one of them............... So, should I just leave the K of C?
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Be still and know that I am God. Psalm 46:10
  #12  
Old Mar 2, '11, 5:06 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by momor View Post
Catholic masonry? Is that what it brings to your mind?
So far, yes...........
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  #13  
Old Mar 2, '11, 5:10 pm
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corsair corsair is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

I was turned off by the very same thing years ago. I know the Knights do a lot of good work but I'm just not into that sort of thing.

when I was a kid, I didn't join the Scouts for similar reasons.
  #14  
Old Mar 2, '11, 5:12 pm
teachccd teachccd is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair View Post
I was turned off by the very same thing years ago. I know the Knights do a lot of good work but I'm just not into that sort of thing.

when I was a kid, I didn't join the Scouts for similar reasons.
Ok so I'm not talking out of the side of my head? Thank you......
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Be still and know that I am God. Psalm 46:10
  #15  
Old Mar 2, '11, 5:21 pm
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Elizium23 Elizium23 is offline
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Default Re: Knights of Columbus

You cannot share the ceremonials with anyone, even if you leave the organization. If you did not wish to make a promise of secrecy then you should not have attended the ceremony, or you should have left at the first opportunity. You now have a duty to protect what you know. This duty is because of your loyalty to the Church. Remember what Jesus said about following him

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