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  #1  
Old Mar 5, '11, 8:16 pm
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

In May 2008, the Vatican declared that belief in extra-terrestrial life was fully consistent with the Christian faith. In an article published in the Vatican’s own official newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, and titled “Aliens are my Brother”, Father Gabriel Nunes, said that astrobiology was a perfectly respectable science, and that life might well exist on other planets.

This brings up some interesting questions in my mind. I am interested to know your opinions on this question: If aliens exist, do you believe that they are saved, or have been given avenues for salvation as you believe you yourselves have? Do you believe that God may have revealed Himself to them in different ways than they way you believe He revealed Himself to you?

The question is open to people of all faiths.

Your friend,
Sufjon
  #2  
Old Mar 5, '11, 8:30 pm
Third Day Third Day is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

The Vatican never issued anything on that topic. That was the opinon of a Vatican Astronomer and has no weight in Church teaching.
I personally do not believe in anything like a human being existes anywhere except on earth.
  #3  
Old Mar 5, '11, 8:50 pm
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

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Originally Posted by Third Day View Post
The Vatican never issued anything on that topic. That was the opinon of a Vatican Astronomer and has no weight in Church teaching.
I personally do not believe in anything like a human being existes anywhere except on earth.
My apologies. I was lead to believe that L’Osservatore Romano, was a publication that the Vatican generally approves of, and that the Vatican Astronomer issuing the opinion was employed in some way by the Vatican. If this is not the case, then my apologies. If this is the case, then the Vatican is truly a progressive organization to let someone it employs issue a statement they disagree with in a publication they basically control. In that case, I commend the Vatican on their open-minded and progressive nature. Aside from that article, the Vatican seems to have developed a rather keen interest on the subject of late.

That aside, I am still interested in opinions on the questions I asked and I thank you for sharing yours.

Your friend
Sufjon
  #4  
Old Mar 5, '11, 8:54 pm
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

The existence of sentient life on other planets is not in conflict with Divine Revelation. Therefore, the Catholic Church has no definitive position on this matter, one way or the other. Our attitude is the same as anyone else seeking truth. Science and faith are not in conflict, because both seek truth. Scientists and believers may have conflicts, because they each have their own agendas. There is a difference between the human element and the domains.

When we speak of science and faith, we’re speaking about domains, not about people. Both of these domains are in search of truth. An honest scientist and an honest believer will both be interested in the answer to the question, is there sentient life somewhere else? If so, what’s it like? The theologian would also ask, “How has God revealed himself to that life form?”

The existence of other sentient beings in the universe does not change the existence of God. On the contrary, it actually reinforces the existence of God. If there are other sentient beings in the universe, then there are also shadows of the transcendent without cross-pollination. It’s too much to be just a coincidence that two sentient beings in two different worlds would ask the same transcendent questions. Part of being sentient is the ability to ask oneself, “Who am I? Why am I here?” These are the first questions of the man or woman seeking truth. The person who does not care why he or she is here or who believes that he or she is a random accident diminishes himself or herself to pure coincidence. If I am a coincidence, then I must ask whether or not I have human rights? Rights assume a belief in absolutes. How can coincidences be guaranteed absolute rights? Even the question is an oxymoron.

The existence of sentient beings or beings who are capable of asking themselves, “Who am I and why am I here?” suggests that there is a static transcendent reality to which all sentient beings are drawn. This static reality is God.

The important question for theology is what has God revealed about himself to these other beings? Will they have the fullness of revelation or will we be missionaries to them? Only time will tell.

The bottom line is that the Vatican astronomer did not speak in conflict with Church teaching. The Church has no official teaching on the matter. However, as Pope Benedict told the evolutionists, the Church is very interested in the findings of science. Faith cannot ignore reason. It must enlighten reason.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
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How long have I waited . . .
  #5  
Old Mar 5, '11, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sufjon View Post
My apologies. I was lead to believe that L’Osservatore Romano, was a publication that the Vatican generally approves of, and that the Vatican Astronomer issuing the opinion was employed in some way by the Vatican. If this is not the case, then my apologies. If this is the case, then the Vatican is truly a progressive organization to let someone it employs issue a statement they disagree with in a publication they basically control. In that case, I commend the Vatican on their open-minded and progressive nature.

That aside, I am still interested in opinions on the questions I asked and I thank you for sharing yours.

Your friend
Sufjon
The L’Osservatore Romano is a Vatican approved publication, but it does not carry the weight of Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. It can be confusing trying to sort out a true church teaching from publications by the church if you aren't familiar the workings of the church.

If aliens do exist, I would believe that they would be have the ability to be saved simply because God wants everyone to be saved.
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  #6  
Old Mar 5, '11, 9:04 pm
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sufjon View Post
My apologies. I was lead to believe that L’Osservatore Romano, was a publication that the Vatican generally approves of, and that the Vatican Astronomer issuing the opinion was employed in some way by the Vatican. If this is not the case, then my apologies. If this is the case, then the Vatican is truly a progressive organization to let someone it employs issue a statement they disagree with in a publication they basically control. In that case, I commend the Vatican on their open-minded and progressive nature.

That aside, I am still interested in opinions on the questions I asked and I thank you for sharing yours.

Your friend
Sufjon
The Vatican actually owns and operates one of the largest and most influential astronomical observatories in the world. It's headquarters are in Castel Gandolfo and the Vatican Research Group, which is its research center is at the University of Arizona. It is open to people of all faiths, not faith, and all nations. Yes, the Vatican is very interested in this field of science. The Catholic Church has been interested in astronomy for centuries. Some of our greatest popes were astronomers and some of our greatest theologians as well.

Vatican Observatory

Unfortunately, most Catholics do not know how many millions of dollars the papacy and Vatican City invest in the sciences and how interested the Church is in the sciences.. The Big Bang Theory was the product of a research by a theologian who was also a scientist.

St. Maximilian Kolbe is remembered in Japan for being one of the brightest physcisists and mathematicians in their country.

There are many great scientific minds in the Church and in her history.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
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Fraternally,

Brother JR, FFV

"Forget not love."


How long have I waited . . .
  #7  
Old Mar 5, '11, 9:07 pm
achmafooma achmafooma is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

My opinion, as an individual Catholic, is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, and that there is no incompatibility between this and the doctrines of the Church. I have no reason to believe God couldn't have created millions of sentient species throughout the universe, if He chose to.

I'd bet that when we meet them, and figure out how to communicate (they'll possibly be very different), and compare notes we'll be surprised to find that they have basically the same understanding of God that we do...or at least that many of them subscribe to something analogous to Christian belief. They'll probably also have sects of non-believers, and one or more false religions.

Oh, the names might be different and some of the minor, inconsequential details won't align, and some of the human-specific strictures might not exist (for example, a species with asexual reproduction might have different moral strictures not including marriage)...but the fundamental monotheism, 'love God and love your neighbor,' and those basic, universal truths will all be the same.

So yes, if sentient aliens exist, I believe they have some path to salvation much like we do, but the exact mechanisms of it will be specifically suited to the species...perhaps very similar to ours, perhaps very different.

Our atheist and agnostic brethren will be very surprised to learn that a completely separate species, having had no contact with us, is joined with us through a relationship with the same one God mark my words!
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  #8  
Old Mar 6, '11, 7:26 am
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

The only thing I know about extra-terrestrial life, or at least that I believe, is that the 'alien encounters' I've read about/heard about on THIS world are complete lies. (Funny how so-called 'aliens' behave and even speak just like demons? Isn't it?)

That said, if there IS life out there I do NOT believe we will ever meet them - except perhaps in the after life... but, I'm not convinced that there are other planets with other creatures.I don't know, to me it doesn't make much sense. We have the angels, the spirit beings... then we have the humans, the physical beings... why create even more? Especially when we cause as much trouble and heart ache as we do?
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  #9  
Old Mar 6, '11, 9:39 am
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybr38 View Post
The only thing I know about extra-terrestrial life, or at least that I believe, is that the 'alien encounters' I've read about/heard about on THIS world are complete lies. (Funny how so-called 'aliens' behave and even speak just like demons? Isn't it?)

That said, if there IS life out there I do NOT believe we will ever meet them - except perhaps in the after life... but, I'm not convinced that there are other planets with other creatures.I don't know, to me it doesn't make much sense. We have the angels, the spirit beings... then we have the humans, the physical beings... why create even more? Especially when we cause as much trouble and heart ache as we do?
I think that's an interesting point you mentioned about the nature of being on other planets. If you look at the diversity of life on earth, one could imagine that life on other planets might not be recognizable as life from our perspective. The question in my mind is consciousness. Here we equate that with the interplay between sense organs and mind. Much of life on this planet and what we perceive to be conscious experience is based on this sort of interaction. Perhaps consciousness is experienced on a different level and in different ways in other places. You mentioned that we may never meet such beings. My sense is that you may be right. I wonder if once a civilization becomes advanced enough either through mental capacity or it's level of consciousness, whether or not it would be necessary to physically travel somewhere to know a good deal about a given place. For instance, we can tell a good deal about distant celestial bodies through chemical signatures that are present in the light they give off. We've been able to do that already, and our world is only a third as old as the universe. Imagine what beings from a world two or three times that old could be able to determine about us without coming here.

Your friend
Sufjon
  #10  
Old Mar 6, '11, 9:49 am
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
The Vatican actually owns and operates one of the largest and most influential astronomical observatories in the world. It's headquarters are in Castel Gandolfo and the Vatican Research Group, which is its research center is at the University of Arizona. It is open to people of all faiths, not faith, and all nations. Yes, the Vatican is very interested in this field of science. The Catholic Church has been interested in astronomy for centuries. Some of our greatest popes were astronomers and some of our greatest theologians as well.

Vatican Observatory

Unfortunately, most Catholics do not know how many millions of dollars the papacy and Vatican City invest in the sciences and how interested the Church is in the sciences.. The Big Bang Theory was the product of a research by a theologian who was also a scientist.

St. Maximilian Kolbe is remembered in Japan for being one of the brightest physcisists and mathematicians in their country.

There are many great scientific minds in the Church and in her history.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
I for one am very glad to hear about this. I often check into forums where atheists attempt to use science to deny religion, and fundamentalists from various religions deny a lot of scientific facts in the interest of preserving their ideas on religion. In my faith tradition, science and spirituality are seen as both complimentary and interdependent. I think it's great that the Vatican embraces science.

Your friend,
Sufjon
  #11  
Old Mar 6, '11, 9:55 am
benidict benidict is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

sorry I couldnt resist...
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  #12  
Old Mar 6, '11, 10:27 am
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

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Originally Posted by benidict View Post
sorry I couldnt resist...
Wow, Benedict - what are they feeding you over there? You're wasting away!

Your friend,
Sufjon
  #13  
Old Mar 6, '11, 11:09 am
benidict benidict is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

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Originally Posted by Sufjon View Post
Wow, Benedict - what are they feeding you over there? You're wasting away!

Your friend,
Sufjon
so you noticed! They are feeding us fine, Im just tired of their cooking. You can only eat so much chicken.....Ive been avoiding it lately.
  #14  
Old Mar 6, '11, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

UFOs, EXTRATERRESTRIALS, ANGELS, CREATION OF MAN

In what must be a historic first, a high official of the Vatican and a Hebrew scholar discussed the issue of extraterrestrials and the creation of man, and though different from each other in up-bringing, background, religion and methodology, nevertheless arrived at common conclusions:

• Yes, extraterrestrials can and do exist on other planets
• Yes, they can be more advanced than us
• Yes, materially, man could have been fashioned from a pre-existing sentient being

The Participants

The high Vatican official was Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Catholic theologian with impressive credentials:
a member of the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church
a Prelate of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the Propagation of the Faith leading exorcist of the Archdiocese of Rome
a member of the Vatican’s Beatification Committee
an expert on demonology
the author of several books
Appointed in the Vatican to deal with the issue of UFOs and extraterrestrials, he has made in recent years pronouncements indicating a tolerance of the subjects but he has never before met and had a dialogue with a Hebrew scholar, and gone beyond prescribed formulations to include the touchy issue of the creation of man.

The Hebrew scholar was me—Zecharia Sitchin:
a researcher of ancient civilizations
a biblical archaeologist
a descendant of Abraham…

Sitchin’s Presentation

We are not alone—not just in the vast universe, but in our own solar system
There is one more planet in our solar system, orbiting beyond Pluto but nearing Earth periodically
Advanced “Extraterrestrials”—the Sumerians called them Anunnaki, the Bible Nefilim—started to visit our planet some 450,000 years ago
And, some 300,000 years ago, they engaged in genetic engineering to upgrade Earth’s hominids and fashion Homo sapiens, the Adam.
In that, they acted as Emissaries for the Universal Creator—God

[i]Msgr. Balducci’s Positions

On UFOs.[/
I]


“There must be something in it.”

The hundreds and thousands of eyewitness reports leave no room for denying that there is a measure of truth in them, even al-lowing for optical illusions, atmospheric phenomena and so on. As a Catholic theologian such witnessing cannot be dismissed.

“Witnessing is one way of transmitting truth, and in the case of the Christian religion, we are talking about a divine revelation in which witnessing is crucial to the credibility of our faith.”

On Life on Other Planets:

“That life may exist on other planets is certainly possible... The Bible does not rule out that possibility. On the basis of scripture and on the basis of our knowledge of God’s omnipotence, His wisdom being limitless, we must affirm that life on other planets is possible.”

Moreover, this is not only possible, but also credible and even probable.

“Cardinal Nicolo Cusano (1401-1464) wrote that there is not a single star in the sky about which we can rule out the existence of life, even if different from ours.”

On Intelligent Extraterrestrials:

“When I talk about extraterrestrials, we must think of beings who are like us—more probably, beings more advanced than us, in that their nature is an association of a material part and a spiritual part, a body and a soul, although in different proportions than human beings on Earth.”

Angels are beings who are purely spiritual, devoid of bodies, while we are made up of spirit and matter but still at a low level.

“It is entirely credible that in the enormous distance between angels and humans, there could be found some middle stage, that is, beings with a body like ours but more elevated spiritually. If such intelligent beings really exist on other planets, only science will be able to prove; but in spite of what some people think, we would be in a position to reconcile their existence with the redemption that Christ has brought us.”

The Anunnaki and the Creation of Man

Well then, I asked Msgr. Balducci, does it mean that my presentation was no great revelation to you? We appear to agree, I said, that more advanced extraterrestrials can exist, and I use science to evidence their coming to Earth ...I then quote the Sumerian texts that say that the Anunnaki (“Those who from heaven to Earth came”) genetically improved an existing being on Earth to create the being that the Bible calls Adam.

My conclusion regarding your presentation, Msgr. Balducci answered, is that more than anything else your whole approach is based on physical evidence, it concerns itself with matter, not with spirit.


From Anunnaki to God

Yes, I responded to the Vatican theologian, in my writings I deal with the physical evidence but already in my first book (The 12th Planet), the very last sentence of the last paragraph raises the question: If the extraterrestrials “created” us, who created them on their planet?

From this my own thinking and the con-tents of my subsequent books evolved toward the spiritual or “divine” aspects. The Anunnaki, I have explained, were just emissaries (and that is what the Hebrew word Malachim, translated ‘angels,’ means). They thought that it was their decision to come here for selfish reasons and to fashion us because they needed workers but in truth they only carried out the Almighty God’s wishes and plans.

If such extraterrestrials were so involved, Msgr. Balducci said, even by your own interpretation they had to do with man’s physics, body and rationality: but God alone had to do with the soul!

www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/esp
  #15  
Old Mar 6, '11, 6:40 pm
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: The Vatican and Extra-Terrestrial Life

[quote=rev kevin;7623968]UFOs, EXTRATERRESTRIALS, ANGELS, CREATION OF MAN

In what must be a historic first, a high official of the Vatican and a Hebrew scholar discussed the issue of extraterrestrials and the creation of man, and though different from each other in up-bringing, background, religion and methodology, nevertheless arrived at common conclusions:

• Yes, extraterrestrials can and do exist on other planets
• Yes, they can be more advanced than us
• Yes, materially, man could have been fashioned from a pre-existing sentient being

The Participants

The high Vatican official was Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a Catholic theologian with impressive credentials:
a member of the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church
a Prelate of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the Propagation of the Faith leading exorcist of the Archdiocese of Rome
a member of the Vatican’s Beatification Committee
an expert on demonology
the author of several books
Appointed in the Vatican to deal with the issue of UFOs and extraterrestrials, he has made in recent years pronouncements indicating a tolerance of the subjects but he has never before met and had a dialogue with a Hebrew scholar, and gone beyond prescribed formulations to include the touchy issue of the creation of man.

The Hebrew scholar was me—Zecharia Sitchin:
a researcher of ancient civilizations
a biblical archaeologist
a descendant of Abraham...


Sitchin’s Presentation



Thank Rev Kevin: I thought I had replied to this, but the post didn't come up, so I am re-posting. Now if both posts come up, you'll know why. Anyway, I have a friend who talks about things like what you posted in this dialog. He has names for all these different sorts of beings and talks about how they influence us. I don't understand it all that well, but it sure is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Your friend,
Sufjon
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