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  #1  
Old Mar 27, '11, 3:38 pm
rdscheirer rdscheirer is offline
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Default Personal relationship with Jesus

Being in the south and surrounded by Baptists of all kinds, Southern, Indepenendant, and even "Bible based" I am constantly asked if I have a personal relationship with Jesus. Since they are "sola scriptura" I ask for them to show me the passage in the Bible that relates to this(Baptist minister was dumbfounded that a Catholic actually knew and reads the Bible) I always come back "Where two or three are gathered in my name,I will be there"

Thoughts?

Bob
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  #2  
Old Mar 27, '11, 3:43 pm
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Salvatore123 Salvatore123 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Bob,

It always falls even further back - when someone answers you with that passage, ask THEM:

"Well how do we KNOW when two or three people are really gathered in Jesus's name? Do we just take their word for it? After all, EVERY Christian that I know says they are gathered "in Jesus's name", and yet we have thousands of different denominations in the US alone, who cannot agree on a uniform interpretation of the Bible. Now, how can Jesus allow MISINTERPRETATION to occur, IF they are gathered "in his name" and he is really "with them"? Do they REALLY believe Jesus would be "with them", and then NOT correct them if they erred in their interpretation?

You see, questions of that sort will ALWAYS presuppose a "given". The key is to learn how to spot WHAT they take for granted as a "given" and then turn the question back around on them and ask THEM to explain their "given".

Again, in your case, their question is PREMISED on their claim that "two or three people can meet in Jesus's name, and then whatever they decide, it must be correct". Well, that conclusion presupposes that ANY two or three people can meet, and that ANY two or three people have authority of some kind to meet IN JESUS's NAME. So ask them: HOW does one know when someone is meeting in Jesus's name?

If they claim that ANY two or three people can meet and just SAY that it is in Jesus's name - and that is sufficient - then that means Jesus has either lied (which we know he cannot do) or Jesus did not mean what he said literally, that is, "ANY" two or three people who get together and say, "we are meeting in Jesus's name", must make it so.

Well of course that does not make it so . . . THAT is why we have the proliferation of protestants that we have - they ALL claim they are meeting in "Jesus's name", and yet they continue, 500+ years later, to invent new interpretations, rules, doctrines, etc.

I am certain - Jesus did NOT mean that, when he said that verse . . .
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Last edited by Salvatore123; Mar 27, '11 at 3:52 pm. Reason: grammar
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  #3  
Old Mar 27, '11, 3:52 pm
steveb1 steveb1 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

salvatore, excellent, wise reply
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  #4  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:00 pm
rdscheirer rdscheirer is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

I think you got it reversed- they ask do you have a "personal relationship" and I counter with the phrase from the Gospel.
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  #5  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:03 pm
rdscheirer rdscheirer is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

I never said that if two or three are gathered in Jesuss name that they could decide whatever was correct!
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  #6  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:25 pm
Hboggs Hboggs is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscheirer View Post
Being in the south and surrounded by Baptists of all kinds, Southern, Indepenendant, and even "Bible based" I am constantly asked if I have a personal relationship with Jesus. ..."

Thoughts?

Bob
Also being from the south, tell them emphatically YES. Tell them to Read John 6 and you have done exactly as he said do: you have partaken of His Flesh and His Blood. How more "personal" a "relationship" can you have?
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  #7  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:29 pm
Hboggs Hboggs is offline
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Talking Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Chances are that if two or more Protestants get together, before the day is over they will have argued over something, split and formed a couple more churches
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  #8  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:40 pm
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Salvatore123 Salvatore123 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

rd,

Sorry - I misread your post . . .

I thought you said that when YOU ask for a passage, THEY always come back with the Timothy quote.

I went back and re-read and realized YOU came back with the Timothy quote - sorry

So . . . NOW you know to not use the Timothy quote
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  #9  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:43 pm
clovergreen clovergreen is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Be thankful the non-catholic christians are interested in being disciples of Jesus like yourself, so you have someone to share the faith with you if no catholics are around.
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  #10  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:48 pm
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Trishie Trishie is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

It's good that you like to have a good grounding in the bible. We all should read the bible carefully and often so that we truly know what Jesus wishes us to know....and pay close attention to scripture readings at Mass each Sunday or each day.

It is a strange myth, however, that we Catholics
don't/ probably don't
have a personal relationship with Jesus.
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you successfully interceded with Him for a family's temporal need
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Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
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  #11  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:49 pm
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

All Catholics have a personal relationship with Jesus if they attend Mass. Why? Because in the Mass we receive His most holy Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. What more intimate a relationship could someone possibly have with Him?
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  #12  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:55 pm
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Salvatore123 Salvatore123 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Holly,

I agree with you 100%.

But that was what I was alluding to earlier . . . protestants, for the most part, but especially the fundamentalists that we encounter routintely in the South, have begun to question what is or is not scripture. They now focus on what BOOKS were considered sacred scripture - not just doctrines/dogma.

So to accept what you stated - and I certainly do - one must accept transubstantiation. THAT is what they do not accept, and thus one cannot "use" John to prove to them that we have a relationship with Christ, albeit not what they consider "personal".

I have found they are almost rewriting the english language to suit their goals, because they are often back against a wall and have no where to escape the truth.

I have also found that once you ask, "well what do you mean by ' a personal relationship with the Lord'?", they will immediately come back with: "Well, it means: do you KNOW you will be saved?"

Of course, that opens up an entirely differnet subject . . .
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Sam
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  #13  
Old Mar 27, '11, 4:56 pm
rdscheirer rdscheirer is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

My problem as a revert from Lutheranism is to be able to use "tradition'- St. Paul said "remember the scripture and tradition we have taught" I use that alot- but the Baptists insist on "sola scripura".I try to explain to them that when scripture is mentioned by Jesus, the apostles or Paul that the New Testament did not exist and they were refering to the Old Testament.
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  #14  
Old Mar 27, '11, 5:04 pm
rdscheirer rdscheirer is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Holly et al,
They do not belive that the Eucharist is valid, sacred and holy. You cannot even begin to hear the words like cannibalism, sacrificing Christ daily with daily Mass. You cannot convince them when it says you must eat his body and drink his blood that that is really what He meant.They truly believe that at every Mass Catholicis sacrifice Jesus again.
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  #15  
Old Mar 27, '11, 5:15 pm
steveb1 steveb1 is offline
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Default Re: Personal relationship with Jesus

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdscheirer View Post
Holly et al,
They do not belive that the Eucharist is valid, sacred and holy. You cannot even begin to hear the words like cannibalism, sacrificing Christ daily with daily Mass. You cannot convince them when it says you must eat his body and drink his blood that that is really what He meant.They truly believe that at every Mass Catholicis sacrifice Jesus again.
The pertinent quesiton is why they believe idiocies like this. Is it sheer brainwashing? Needing to feel superior? "My pastor says it, so it's true?"

When a body of believers so consistently runs away from the truth and so consistently tells lies, one wonders if the reason could be ... "Satan"??
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