New Ukrainian Catholic leader to ask Pope for patriarchal status [CWN]

[CWN News]

Two days after his March 27 enthronement as head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk said he would ask Pope Benedict to raise the Eastern Catholic ...

More...

[KyivAndrew]

Very good news!

In going to the original Ukrainian interview on which this article is based; I render a slightly different version of what exactly the newly-elected leader of the Ukrainian Catholic Church said:

"We are going to discuss [with HH Benedict XVI) that we are a Church which is flourishing. And each flourishing eastern Church strives toward a Patriarchate. Because a Patriarchate is a natural completion to the development of this Church."

http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news...cs/ugcc/41491/

Twenty years after coming out of the catacombs when the Soviet Union collapsed, Sviatoslav Shevchuk believes the UGCC has matured and developed to Patriarchal status.

I think during Bishop Shevchuk's homily during his Enthronement he noted his young age and the age of his fellow priests and that the UGCC is a youngish Church with respect to its current clergy. I commend him for stating aloud his and the Church's desire before meeting with HH Benedict XVI.

[Alexander Roman]

"We are going to discuss [with HH Benedict XVI) that we are a Church which is flourishing. And each flourishing eastern Church strives toward a Patriarchate. Because a Patriarchate is a natural completion to the development of this Church."

There's nothing like the experience of martyrdom and persecution to speed up one's maturation process!

The only problem now is that the new UGCC Primate has hit the ball squarely in the Vatican's court.

The Vatican is going to have to figure out a way to respond to His Beatitude Sviatoslav in a most tactful manner.

But I see a possible scenario here. Given the Moscow Patriarchate's recent response to the Vatican on cooperation with the Catholic Church only (and no to unity), the Vatican MAY feel that all of its "ost-politik" has really come to nought.

And HH Pope Benedict has already demonstrated that he is quite capable of pulling a few wild cards himself. For example, HH the Pope wasted no time dressing down communist China for how it continues to deal with Chinese Catholics, of the "Patriotic Association" or the "Underground." HH the Pope did this after years of Vatican politicking with Beijing - until Beijing demonstrated that it has absolutely no intentions of playing fair ball with the Chinese Catholics or the Vatican. The Pope did not mince words when going public to criticize China on this score (the first time that has happened in a very long time).

With Moscow's cold shoulder treatment now, it might be possible for Rome to play the UGCC patriarchate wild card since Moscow sees the UGCC as being part of its wayward backyard and territiory.

There is no way that the UGCC is "going back" to the Moscow patriarchate (the fact that it did before was MANY TANKS to the Soviet government). So you can forget about that, tavarishi!

The UGCC has truly matured and already conducts itself like a patriarchate. And the pressure is now on Rome to recognize the de facto existence of a UGCC patriarchate.

What has Rome got to lose now in so doing? Anyone? OK, let me tell you then . . .

If Rome ever thinks that Moscow will come into union with it, be reconciled to it, join etc. or any of the myriad ecumenical niceties -- it ain't gonna happen, Monsignori!

Time to realize who your real friends are. The UGCC know where the bodies (of their martyrs) are buried.

And it is time for Rome to acknowledge this as well.

And if Rome refuses the UGCC this time - let me tell you, it isn't going to be pretty on our side.

And that too will be a measure of our maturity as a Particular Church.

Alex

[ciero]

Originally Posted by Alexander Roman

"We are going to discuss [with HH Benedict XVI) that we are a Church which is flourishing. And each flourishing eastern Church strives toward a Patriarchate. Because a Patriarchate is a natural completion to the development of this Church."

There's nothing like the experience of martyrdom and persecution to speed up one's maturation process!

The only problem now is that the new UGCC Primate has hit the ball squarely in the Vatican's court.

The Vatican is going to have to figure out a way to respond to His Beatitude Sviatoslav in a most tactful manner.

But I see a possible scenario here. Given the Moscow Patriarchate's recent response to the Vatican on cooperation with the Catholic Church only (and no to unity), the Vatican MAY feel that all of its "ost-politik" has really come to nought.

And HH Pope Benedict has already demonstrated that he is quite capable of pulling a few wild cards himself. For example, HH the Pope wasted no time dressing down communist China for how it continues to deal with Chinese Catholics, of the "Patriotic Association" or the "Underground." HH the Pope did this after years of Vatican politicking with Beijing - until Beijing demonstrated that it has absolutely no intentions of playing fair ball with the Chinese Catholics or the Vatican. The Pope did not mince words when going public to criticize China on this score (the first time that has happened in a very long time).

With Moscow's cold shoulder treatment now, it might be possible for Rome to play the UGCC patriarchate wild card since Moscow sees the UGCC as being part of its wayward backyard and territiory.

There is no way that the UGCC is "going back" to the Moscow patriarchate (the fact that it did before was MANY TANKS to the Soviet government). So you can forget about that, tavarishi!

The UGCC has truly matured and already conducts itself like a patriarchate. And the pressure is now on Rome to recognize the de facto existence of a UGCC patriarchate.

What has Rome got to lose now in so doing? Anyone? OK, let me tell you then . . .

If Rome ever thinks that Moscow will come into union with it, be reconciled to it, join etc. or any of the myriad ecumenical niceties -- it ain't gonna happen, Monsignori!

Time to realize who your real friends are. The UGCC know where the bodies (of their martyrs) are buried.

And it is time for Rome to acknowledge this as well.

And if Rome refuses the UGCC this time - let me tell you, it isn't going to be pretty on our side.

And that too will be a measure of our maturity as a Particular Church.

Alex

I believe it is time for Moscow to come back under Kiev!

[KyivAndrew]

Originally Posted by Alexander Roman

"We are going to discuss [with HH Benedict XVI) that we are a Church which is flourishing. And each flourishing eastern Church strives toward a Patriarchate. Because a Patriarchate is a natural completion to the development of this Church."

There's nothing like the experience of martyrdom and persecution to speed up one's maturation process!

The only problem now is that the new UGCC Primate has hit the ball squarely in the Vatican's court.

The Vatican is going to have to figure out a way to respond to His Beatitude Sviatoslav in a most tactful manner.

But I see a possible scenario here. Given the Moscow Patriarchate's recent response to the Vatican on cooperation with the Catholic Church only (and no to unity), the Vatican MAY feel that all of its "ost-politik" has really come to nought.

And HH Pope Benedict has already demonstrated that he is quite capable of pulling a few wild cards himself. For example, HH the Pope wasted no time dressing down communist China for how it continues to deal with Chinese Catholics, of the "Patriotic Association" or the "Underground." HH the Pope did this after years of Vatican politicking with Beijing - until Beijing demonstrated that it has absolutely no intentions of playing fair ball with the Chinese Catholics or the Vatican. The Pope did not mince words when going public to criticize China on this score (the first time that has happened in a very long time).

With Moscow's cold shoulder treatment now, it might be possible for Rome to play the UGCC patriarchate wild card since Moscow sees the UGCC as being part of its wayward backyard and territiory.

There is no way that the UGCC is "going back" to the Moscow patriarchate (the fact that it did before was MANY TANKS to the Soviet government). So you can forget about that, tavarishi!

The UGCC has truly matured and already conducts itself like a patriarchate. And the pressure is now on Rome to recognize the de facto existence of a UGCC patriarchate.

What has Rome got to lose now in so doing? Anyone? OK, let me tell you then . . .

If Rome ever thinks that Moscow will come into union with it, be reconciled to it, join etc. or any of the myriad ecumenical niceties -- it ain't gonna happen, Monsignori!

Time to realize who your real friends are. The UGCC know where the bodies (of their martyrs) are buried.

And it is time for Rome to acknowledge this as well.

And if Rome refuses the UGCC this time - let me tell you, it isn't going to be pretty on our side.

And that too will be a measure of our maturity as a Particular Church.

Alex

VERY WELL PUT ALEX ! Could not agree with you more. As you said: "Time to realize who your real friends are."

The next couple of days will be very interesting. I too hope the Vatican finally realizes its Ostpolitik has really only resulted in the UGCC not being treated fairly. I hope the late Patriarch-Confessor Josyp Slipyj is watching this.

[Biedrik]

I hope the Patriarch succeeds in becoming a...patriarch. Hmmm...that sound odd. Still, it would be great to see. Alexander Roman made a great point. This would be a great move from Rome towards the Eastern Churches.

Originally Posted by ciero

I believe it is time for Moscow to come back under Kiev!

Why not? Someone needs to tell Moscow that the Slavic world does not belong to them. We Poles never liked Russian control, and I'm sure we're not the only ones with that sentiment.

[KyivAndrew]

Originally Posted by Biedrik

Someone needs to tell Moscow that the Slavic world does not belong to them.

Absolutely!

[ConstantineTG]

Lets all pray for this!

[Little Boy Lost]

My only question is doesn't this break with the ancient patriarchal sees as created and acknowledged by the Ecumenical Councils? I mean... partially as a way of control the Byzantines erected autocephalous churches as a form of kingmaking to grant loyalty to the imperial church and crown?

[Friar David, O.Carm]

Originally Posted by Biedrik

Why not? Someone needs to tell Moscow that the Slavic world does not belong to them. We Poles never liked Russian control, and I'm sure we're not the only ones with that sentiment.

The Slavic world does not belong to Kiev either.




Here is a question I asked when myself and another were talking about this issue.

To be a Patriarchal Church doesn't one need to be in a See that was transfered from one of the five original Patriarchal Churches?

Shouldn't we just stick to the five Patriarchates?

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by ByzCath

Shouldn't we just stick to the five Patriarchates?

I know it is a rhetorical question, but I feel this way...

Too many patriarchs already.

[Friar David, O.Carm]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

I know it is a rhetorical question, but I feel this way...

Too many patriarchs already.

Not really a rhetorical question. It is something I am open to and wanting to learn about.


But....Not only do we have to many patriarchs already, we have too many in the same See. Antioch has five patriachs by my count, three of which are Catholics.

Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch
Maronite Patriarch of Antioch
Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch of Antioch

Greek Orthodox Patriarchs of Antioch
Syriac Orthodox Patriarchs of Antioch

[countertenor]

I've never been totally sure about creating or elevating new patriarchates, but I do think, that if we are not going to have new patriarchates that we need to figure out some way to move the non patriarchal Eastern Churches away from dependency on Rome and make them either truly self governing, or answerable to one of the Patriarchal Eastern Churches sui juris. Oh and can we disband the colonial office yet?

Before anyone asks I've not thought out how something like this would work.

[Little Boy Lost]

Originally Posted by countertenor

I've never been totally sure about creating or elevating new patriarchates, but I do think, that if we are not going to have new patriarchates that we need to figure out some way to move the non patriarchal Eastern Churches away from dependency on Rome and make them either truly self governing, or answerable to one of the Patriarchal Eastern Churches sui juris. Oh and can we disband the colonial office yet?

Awesome.

[Spirithound]

Good arguments on both sides. I am glad the decision is not in my hands!