Respect for the Muslims. - Page 4

**JharekCarnelian** · #46 Apr 9, '11, 6:17 am

Quote:

I am not advocating disrepect of any one. However, there have been occasions throughout history that some people "lie low" until they have the upper hand and then reveal their true identity.

There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between the purported outlook in the first sentence and the sentiments expressed in the second. It reads much like a modern version of 'reds under the bed.'

poor_clare · #47 Apr 9, '11, 6:38 am

I usually tried to avoid these sorts of threads on CAF because it tends to bring out ignorance and intolerance. Throughout history "terrorist" acts have been committed by believers of many religions - including Catholicism.

If one doesn't understand someone's else's religion they shouldn't comment on it. If one wants to understand then they should seek information from those who are of that faith.

We are all individuals with virtues and vices. God loves us all. What is in our hearts and minds and how we treat others is what is most important.

You're obviously very young Gess. Seek answers from those that know and not those who are bigoted.

God bless you,
Clare

**JharekCarnelian** · #48 Apr 9, '11, 6:42 am

I keep using this quote from the Indian poet Tagore as I think it very relevant to these kind o threads:-

"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

Many Catholics here should be aware I've heard all these objections and views expressed at other times. Only in these cases Catholics were the ones 'lying low' or 'controlled by their Church' or 'just waiting to strike' or would 'outbreed us all.'

This seems to be very much the attitude here at points in this thread:-

"I am anti-Roman Catholic, but God being my judge, I love the poor dupes who are ground down under that system."

Just replace Roman Catholic with Muslim and type to serve and it would be perfectly (and sadly) useable at many points thus far in this thread.

Venezia · #49 Apr 9, '11, 7:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by poor_clare

I usually tried to avoid these sorts of threads on CAF because it tends to bring out ignorance and intolerance. Throughout history "terrorist" acts have been committed by believers of many religions - including Catholicism.

If one doesn't understand someone's else's religion they shouldn't comment on it. If one wants to understand then they should seek information from those who are of that faith.

We are all individuals with virtues and vices. God loves us all. What is in our hearts and minds and how we treat others is what is most important.

You're obviously very young Gess. Seek answers from those that know and not those who are bigoted.

God bless you,
Clare

yeah,terrorist acts have been commited by believers of many religions,but only muslims commiting terrorist acts for faith,i mean,christians commited terrorist acts,but there are no bible verse commanding killing people,but in qoran,there are tons tons and tons of verses about ''jihad'' ''ffighting in the name of allah'' ''kill those who ....'' ''slay those who ......'' ''disable those who ....'' etc.so i think islam dont deserve respect.if we will show their religion respect,and allow them to settle in our countries and make many children,they wont respect us when they will gather power and contain demographic majority.maybe they want to respect us but if they are faithfull,they cant

i think we shouldnt allow them to build mosques unless they will build churches in their countries.we shouldnt allow them to build great mosques unless they build catedrals in their countries,we shouldnt allow them to send islamic missionaries unless they learn to tolerate (and of course,to not kill) christian missionaries.we shouldnt show respect and tolerate them unless they show respect minorities in their countries.i think we should force them to pay a christian ''jizya''.minorities have to pay an extra tribute to government if they dont want to be beheaded in islamic countries,but terrorists are living in our countries in prosperity,even without working,with ''unemployment salary'' !.

poor_clare · #50 Apr 9, '11, 7:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venezia

yeah,terrorist acts have been commited by believers of many religions,but only muslims commiting terrorist acts for faith,i mean,christians commited terrorist acts,but there are no bible verse commanding killing people,but in qoran,there are tons tons and tons of verses about ''jihad'' ''ffighting in the name of allah'' ''kill those who ....'' ''slay those who ......'' ''disable those who ....'' etc.so i think islam dont deserve respect.if we will show their religion respect,and allow them to settle in our countries and make many children,they wont respect us when they will gather power and contain demographic majority.maybe they want to respect us but if they are faithfull,they cant

i think we shouldnt allow them to build mosques unless they will build churches in their countries.we shouldnt allow them to build great mosques unless they build catedrals in their countries,we shouldnt allow them to send islamic missionaries unless they learn to tolerate (and of course,to not kill) christian missionaries.we shouldnt show respect and tolerate them unless they show respect minorities in their countries.i think we should force them to pay a christian ''jizya''.minorities have to pay an extra tribute to government if they dont want to be beheaded in islamic countries,but terrorists are living in our countries in prosperity,even without working,with ''unemployment salary'' !.

You don't know what you're talking about but you've proven my point for me.

Venezia · #51 Apr 9, '11, 7:29 am

i know what im talking about

**JharekCarnelian** · #52 Apr 9, '11, 7:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venezia

i know what im talking about

You sadly do not and your views are highly uncharitable to say the least.

Venezia · #53 Apr 9, '11, 8:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

You sadly do not and your views are highly uncharitable to say the least.

so,whats your ideas ? should we give our countries to them so easily ?

**JharekCarnelian** · #54 Apr 9, '11, 8:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venezia

so,whats your ideas ? should we give our countries to them so easily ?

Strawman

Venezia · #55 Apr 9, '11, 8:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Strawman

ok,its your own idea

rikkk1958 · #56 Apr 9, '11, 8:42 am

Although we are instructed to love our neighbors, Jesus told His disciples also to continue teaching what they have seen and learned from the Lord, to spread the good news and teach those who are lost that there is no life but through Him. Are we fortunate as Catholics to believe in the Church Jesus founded and not be able to reach out for our dear brothers and sisters who are lost. Is charity better than knowing and following the true God? As the greatest commandments of God is first and foremost to Love thy God with all your might and strength, should we not teach others who does not know God well to continue their ways just because they are our neighbors even though they do not accept Christ?

Christ was clear enough to let the Jews know that He was disappointed for them not believing in Him. My point is that, we should always give room for teaching others the Truth so that they may be in communion with the Church He left us to follow. As Jesus taught us the Way, we must likewise convince our brothers and sisters who are lost to know the Truth so that they may also have Life.

Kouyate42 · #57 Apr 9, '11, 10:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venezia

you are wrong,in most muslim countries they dont live happily,at least,i wouldnt be happy with being humiliated as paying jizya tribute (an extra tax that nonmuslims have to pay if they dont want to be beheaded),and as losing some of my rights (nonmuslims cant hold strong positions in governments and being ruled by muslim rulers.even though our religion advices us to obey rulers,i would prefer to die than being ruled by a muslim governor) and certainly,all of sharia-ruling muslims countries kills apostates,have killed apostates for 1400 years,currently killing and they will still kill.i think tolerating invaders for the sake of ''democracy'' is greatest fault europe have ever done.

This is quite an ignorant post. The jizya tax paid by non-Muslims was only equal to the zakah that a Muslim is obligated to give. There is no fundamental difference between the two forms of giving other than who pays them.

Also, there have been Muslims in my country (the UK) since the 1500s when merchants began trading goods from the East. Nearly all of these have contributed greatly to British society.

Also, sources for all these 'facts' about Islam please? Credible,full bibliography of sources if you can.

GessHrck · #58 Apr 9, '11, 12:16 pm

Thank you all for your responses. I'm not going to debate any longer, I've gotten a taste of both sides; exactly what I was looking for.

I agree with some of the critique of Muslims. But I'm trying to remain open-minded.

In conclusion, I've learned a lot. Thank you to all who have shared their views with me.

On a final note, of course I know their religion is wrong. Of course I know Catholicism is the true faith. But their devotion to Allah and their determination to remain holy is admirable. If anything we can learn from these people.

Of course I'm not disregarding the things I've learned about them since I've started my post. It's disappointing to know they believe they can kill whoever does not comply with their beliefs. I've come to learn much. Thanks everyone.

Venezia · #59 Apr 9, '11, 12:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kouyate42

This is quite an ignorant post. The jizya tax paid by non-Muslims was only equal to the zakah that a Muslim is obligated to give. There is no fundamental difference between the two forms of giving other than who pays them.

Also, there have been Muslims in my country (the UK) since the 1500s when merchants began trading goods from the East. Nearly all of these have contributed greatly to British society.

Also, sources for all these 'facts' about Islam please? Credible,full bibliography of sources if you can.

these facts are from their book,if you will search ''dhimmitude'' and/or ''nonmuslims in sharia'' in google,u can see the verses in their book about ''qaffirs'',i u still wont believe,u can easily buy a quran and read by your eyes.about the death penalty of apostasy ? yes,there are no verse in qoran like ''kil all apostates'',but their ''prophet'' like bedouin leader has told ''kill all 'murtad's (apostates),firstly,give them 3 days to reconvert to islam,if they wont reconvert,kill them''.and now,u can see the situation of sharia-ruling countries (afghanistan,saudi arabia,iran,malaisia,mauritania,pakistan ).i would deny to be a dhimmi and prefer to die if i was in a sharia country.wont they demand sharia when they will become majority due to migrations and high fertility rate ? i dont want to see my grandchildren speaking arabic,worshipping allah and living in a country which has a flag with moon and crescent one day.

**JharekCarnelian** · #60 Apr 9, '11, 12:28 pm

Aye and which country do you live in? Italy possibly given you are using Venezia as a nickname?