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  #1  
Old May 13, '05, 8:42 pm
Mike-STA Mike-STA is offline
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Question Tubes tied a sin?

I was wondering if a women who gets her tubes tied after she went through menopause would be a sin since it is sterlization? She can't have kids though so.
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  #2  
Old May 13, '05, 8:58 pm
kaymart kaymart is offline
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Post Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Why would she have it done if she went through menopause??? If she can still concieve though, it is a sin
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  #3  
Old May 13, '05, 10:26 pm
UKcatholicGuy UKcatholicGuy is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Direct sterilization is a sin, whether you're 25 or 53.
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  #4  
Old May 14, '05, 7:34 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Yes.
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  #5  
Old May 14, '05, 8:09 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Steralization only applies to those who can bear children. If she was already incapable of bearing children, then no steralization occurred and thus no sin.
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  #6  
Old May 14, '05, 8:42 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp
Steralization only applies to those who can bear children. If she was already incapable of bearing children, then no steralization occurred and thus no sin.
God opens the womb and God closes the womb. Yes, it is still sterilization.
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  #7  
Old May 14, '05, 8:47 am
Sgt Sweaters Sgt Sweaters is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp
Steralization only applies to those who can bear children. If she was already incapable of bearing children, then no steralization occurred and thus no sin.
Recall to mind Abram's wife Sarai, or Zechariah's wife Elizabeth. Both unable to have children. Yet Sarai bore Isaac, and Elizabeth bore John the Baptist.
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  #8  
Old May 14, '05, 11:14 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke
God opens the womb and God closes the womb. Yes, it is still sterilization.
Presuming child bearing is really impossible and not improbable, and presuming tying the tubes was done for a legitimate medical reason and not to prevent bearing of children, then it is not a sin.
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  #9  
Old May 14, '05, 11:18 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Sweaters
Recall to mind Abram's wife Sarai, or Zechariah's wife Elizabeth. Both unable to have children. Yet Sarai bore Isaac, and Elizabeth bore John the Baptist.
We don't know the specific case that we're being asked about. But we do know that neither Sarai nor Elizabeth had the luxury of modern medicine like we have today.

If the chance of having children is zero (not close to zero) based on the medical condition of the female in question, and if the procedure is being done for a reason other than sterilization, then it is not a sin.
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Old May 14, '05, 12:46 pm
kmktexas kmktexas is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp
We don't know the specific case that we're being asked about. But we do know that neither Sarai nor Elizabeth had the luxury of modern medicine like we have today.

If the chance of having children is zero (not close to zero) based on the medical condition of the female in question, and if the procedure is being done for a reason other than sterilization, then it is not a sin.

If the surgery was done to treat a medical condition (I do not know of any condition where this would apply) then it would not be a sin. But under those circumstances, it wouldn't be a sin before menopause either (such as when a hysterectomy is needed for a diseased uterus). If the tubes were tied as a kind of insurance against even a remote possibility of pregnancy, it would probably be a sin.

If it was done for no medical reason but after all fertility had definitively ceased, then it would probably be the sin of mutilation even if not of sterilization.

Is this entirely a hypothetical or are there some actual specifics that could shed some light onto why someone would want/need to have this done?
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  #11  
Old May 14, '05, 5:26 pm
UKcatholicGuy UKcatholicGuy is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp
We don't know the specific case that we're being asked about. But we do know that neither Sarai nor Elizabeth had the luxury of modern medicine like we have today.

If the chance of having children is zero (not close to zero) based on the medical condition of the female in question, and if the procedure is being done for a reason other than sterilization, then it is not a sin.
Great, but that's not the question. The OP is asking if getting one's tubes tied is a sin since the woman is past what's usually considered child-bearing years. The answer to that question is YES, IT IS A GRAVE SIN. Please refrain from complicating the matter.
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  #12  
Old May 14, '05, 5:42 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp
Presuming child bearing is really impossible and not improbable, and presuming tying the tubes was done for a legitimate medical reason and not to prevent bearing of children, then it is not a sin.
There is no medical reason to have your tubes tied other than sterilization.
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #13  
Old May 15, '05, 8:28 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

You all make very good points. Until we know the specifics involved, and until we have a medical reason aside from sterilization, we should presume it is a sin.
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  #14  
Old May 15, '05, 8:35 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Default Re: Tubes tied a sin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmktexas
If the surgery was done to treat a medical condition (I do not know of any condition where this would apply) then it would not be a sin. But under those circumstances, it wouldn't be a sin before menopause either (such as when a hysterectomy is needed for a diseased uterus).
I think you need to be careful here. It may or may not be a sin depending on the medical condition. For example, part of the disagreement on partial-birth abortion is what constitutes a medical reason for killing the baby. Pro-abortionists want things like headaches to be included. I'm not saying you're claiming this, but I just want to be clear that medical condition should be interpreted narrowly.

Sterilization for medical reasons requires a high medical-reason threshold before it is moral.
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  #15  
Old May 15, '05, 4:25 pm
kaymart kaymart is offline
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Post Re: Tubes tied a sin?

What possible medical reason could there be??? Tubual ligation I think just shuts off the tubes. The woman still gets her cycle, I understand except in this paticular case if she is through menopause??? any answers I confused.
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