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  #1  
Old Apr 27, '11, 9:15 pm
Juan Arguelles Juan Arguelles is offline
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Religion: Orthodox Judaism
Default What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
  #2  
Old Apr 27, '11, 10:54 pm
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
Well, I'm not Catholic but Jewish. However, I think I can offer a response to your question. The most fundamental controversy, as I see it, is accepting the divinity of Jesus as one's Lord and Savior, as well as the notion of the Triune G-d. As you may know, Jews do not believe that Jesus is G-d or the son of G-d. They also do not believe that G-d is divided into three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They believe in only G-d the Father and directly communicate with Him alone. There is no prayer to saints or the Virgin Mary as intercessors, but only prayer directly to G-d the Father. There are other very significant differences between the two religions in moral theology. One such essential difference involves the issue of abortion. Catholicism is most definitely opposed to all abortions regardless of the situation, whereas Judaism (even Orthodox Judaism) believes that, in certain instances, notably when not terminating a pregnancy will result in the mother's death, aborting the unborn child is not only permitted but required. Judaism's view is based on the belief that the soul of the child is infused immediately prior to birth, as related in Genesis with regard to Adam, and therefore the unborn child is not yet accorded the full status of human being compared to the mother. There are other such important moral differences as well. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say you wish to retain your Catholic heritage and, at the same time, wish to follow your gut and convert to Judaism because it makes more sense to you than Christianity or Islam. What exactly do you wish to retain from Catholicism? I ask this question not in order to dissuade you from converting to Judaism, but rather to better understand how you believe you can retain your Catholic heritage and still become Jewish. You would have to give up the Eucharist and other sacraments of the Church, and instead follow Mosaic Law very strictly as an Orthodox Jew as well as observing Jewish holidays and the Sabbath. Catholicism and Judaism are really quite different religions in terms of ceremonies, holidays, and certain moral doctrines even though they share the most fundamental moral precepts of loving G-d and one's fellow man.
  #3  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:00 pm
mskejj mskejj is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
I suggest you read some good books and study the Jewish roots of many of the practices we have in the Catholic faith. I think you would be very surprised of how much Catholicism is from the Jewish roots.

I suggest Dr. Brandt Pitre book "Jewish Roots of the Eucharist" for starters. He has his PHD in New Testament and Ancient Judaism. I would also find a bible study by Jeff Cavins called the Great Adventure Timeline which takes you through the narrative books of the Old Testament up to The Church in Acts. You will see the "New Testament Hidden in the Old Testament and the Old Testament Revealed in the New."

This will open your eyes to seeing how Christ did not abolish the Old Testament but fulfilled it.

Having a Catholic Heritage but knowing very little of Christ doesn't get you very far. Just as there are many people who say they are Jewish but only in a cultural sense...as there are many who do not practice and don't even believe in God.
  #4  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:06 pm
Juan Arguelles Juan Arguelles is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

@meltzerboy: Judaism has always been my passion for some reason. I do not know how to explain it. But I feel there is something in Judaism that is getting my attention. I believe a lot of Judaism and wish to learn more. I do understand that there are major differences in Judaism and Catholicism. I just know for many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. Growing up I was just Christian and then became an Atheist in my teen years. Now, I'm drawn toward Judaism.

@mskejj: I will have to look into it. Sounds interesting.
  #5  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:12 pm
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
@meltzerboy: Judaism has always been my passion for some reason. I do not know how to explain it. But I feel there is something in Judaism that is getting my attention. I believe a lot of Judaism and wish to learn more. I do understand that there are major differences in Judaism and Catholicism. I just know for many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. Growing up I was just Christian and then became an Atheist in my teen years. Now, I'm drawn toward Judaism.

@mskejj: I will have to look into it. Sounds interesting.
It sounds like you're on a spiritual journey. So my advice to you is similar to what the other poster advised, namely, read more about Judaism but not only from the Christian perspective, also from the Jewish perspective, and its similarities (as well as differences) compared to Catholicism. And if you still believe that Judaism is where your heart is, I'd say follow your heart. I wish you the best.
  #6  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:16 pm
chuckfrmvalyfrg chuckfrmvalyfrg is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Juan,
I view Judaism as pre-Messianic Catholicism , and I view Catholicism as post-Messianic Judaism . Why would you convert to Judaism from Catholicism unless you don't believe Christ is who he said he is ? To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton , "Christ is either a liar , a lunatic or the Lord " !
Did you ever believe Christ was God and the Messiah ? Or did you stop believing ? This website ,catholic.com , has a faith section that will give you a more detailed answer to your original question . The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah and ours has already come . But which religion did more to make the One True God known to all the world ? Ethical monotheism was introduced to the world throuh the Jews ,but ethical monotheism was spread throuhout the world by the Catholic Church .
By the way , how old are you ? How were you catechized ?
  #7  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:16 pm
Juan Arguelles Juan Arguelles is offline
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Religion: Orthodox Judaism
Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy View Post
It sounds like you're on a spiritual journey. So my advice to you is similar to what the other poster advised, namely, read more about Judaism but not only from the Christian perspective, also from the Jewish perspective, and its similarities (as well as differences) compared to Catholicism. And if you still believe that Judaism is where your heart is, I'd say follow your heart. I wish you the best.
Thanks for the reply. I'm defiantly studying Judaism from the Jewish perspective. It is very interesting learning about the faith, how Judaism is different from Christianity,Islam and other faiths, and how some Jewish groups do not see eye to eye on religious issues. More liberal Jews and very traditional Jews.
  #8  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:21 pm
Juan Arguelles Juan Arguelles is offline
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Religion: Orthodox Judaism
Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckfrmvalyfrg View Post
Juan,
I view Judaism as pre-Messianic Catholicism , and I view Catholicism as post-Messianic Judaism . Why would you convert to Judaism from Catholicism unless you don't believe Christ is who he said he is ? To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton , "Christ is either a liar , a lunatic or the Lord " !
Did you ever believe Christ was God and the Messiah ? Or did you stop believing ? This website ,catholic.com , has a faith section that will give you a more detailed answer to your original question . The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah and ours has already come . But which religion did more to make the One True God known to all the world ? Ethical monotheism was introduced to the world throuh the Jews ,but ethical monotheism was spread throuhout the world by the Catholic Church .
By the way , how old are you ? How were you catechized ?
I do come from a long line of Catholics but before I was born my parents chose to become just Christians. I'm 22 right now and the only time I ever went to church with my mother was years back at a protestant church. I believe my parents told they and relatives gain interest in evangelism which brought many members of my family to the protestant form of the Christian faith. I cannot argue with my family on their choices. I was surprised to find out how many generations my family were Catholics.
  #9  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:26 pm
losh14 losh14 is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

I have a lot of respect for the Jewish people and for our shared history. I know the Catechism considers the Jewish people to have a special place in God's plan of salvation and I think we share a lot in common on matters of morality, ethics and the nature of sin, as well as much ecclesiology. Where we differ is essential - salvation and the nature of God. Being Catholic - and having been tempted to leave the Church several times and finding prayerfully my way back into the Church each time - I would find rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord, King, God and Savior impossible to do. This alone would abrogate any consideration I'd have to become a Jew.

In your case, you speak of tradition but not personal faith. Your family's beliefs aren't enough if they're not your beliefs. I'd love for you to remain Catholic but I'd rather see you a fully-alive, on-fire Catholic than one who constantly laments what spirituality he could find elsewhere.

We all follow as we believe we are called - to do otherwise is hypocrisy. May you find Him.
  #10  
Old Apr 27, '11, 11:29 pm
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Thanks for the reply. I'm defiantly studying Judaism from the Jewish perspective. It is very interesting learning about the faith, how Judaism is different from Christianity,Islam and other faiths, and how some Jewish groups do not see eye to eye on religious issues. More liberal Jews and very traditional Jews.
It is certainly true that Jews are not monolithic, and neither are Catholics on certain doctrines. But on basic dogma all Jews are united (as are all Catholics). There are thirteen articles of faith in Judaism, and incidentally the belief in the coming of the Messiah, while not exactly optional, is not accepted by all Jews. Judging by your response to another poster and your young age, I can't help but think you have had a turbulent spiritual life: Protestantism, Catholic heritage, atheism, and now Judaism. Again, study Judaism, but also learn more about Catholicism and Christianity in general, before you make up your mind.
  #11  
Old Apr 28, '11, 1:01 am
valentino valentino is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
I'm Catholic and i respect Judaism.I like a lot of the customs.i speak more of orthodox than other branches.However i know they consider Jesus a prophet to the gentiles and not the predicted Messiah.Its a bit of a mystery to me why they hold so firmly to their belief that the Messiah is yet to come.I've heard the arguments but they've also heard the Catholic argument why we believe Christ is the Messiah.I believe its their traditions which may be the hardest things to reconcile with christianity.I can't understand why you would consider the Jewish faith as the path God would want you to follow.Is it because you want to reach out to the Jews in some way.Do you not believe Jesus is the savior and Son of God?Maybe you could answer me if you would.
  #12  
Old Apr 28, '11, 5:24 am
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

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Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
From observation, I think that Catholics (like other Christians) really don't appreciate just how paradigmatically different the two religions are - that Christianity isn't 'Judaism plus Jesus' and Judaism isn't 'Christianity minus Jesus', that many key concepts in one are pretty meaningless in the other and that the two religions just don't 'work' in the same way.

It's those differences that have been for me the most interesting - the apparent similarities, not so much.
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  #13  
Old Apr 28, '11, 11:40 am
Dave Noonan Dave Noonan is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

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Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
I do come from a long line of Catholics but before I was born my parents chose to become just Christians. I'm 22 right now and the only time I ever went to church with my mother was years back at a protestant church. I believe my parents told they and relatives gain interest in evangelism which brought many members of my family to the protestant form of the Christian faith. I cannot argue with my family on their choices. I was surprised to find out how many generations my family were Catholics.
My suggestion would be to always keep studying and learning. Also, if your family is of Spanish descent, if you go back even farther, you may find that you have Jewish blood in your ancestry--that's not at all unusual.
  #14  
Old Apr 28, '11, 11:57 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

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Originally Posted by Juan Arguelles View Post
Greetings everyone! My name is Juan Arguelles. I come from a very traditional Catholic heritage. Though my parents are somewhat conservative Christians. For many generations my ancestors have been Catholic. So, I know a lot about the Christian faith and doctrines. For awhile I felt Judaism is the answer for my spirit. I decided to follow my gut and become a Noahide (gentile who follows the Seven laws of Noah) where I would then soon and hopefully become a Orthodox Jew. Judaism makes more sense to me then Christianity and Islam. The only thing I see worth saving from Christianity is my Catholic heritage. Which goes back many, many generations. What are your views on Judaism? Anything you feel that is controversial?
Well the first thnk that comes to my mind is you have the first book but not the second.

The first book is where we have everything in common.

My question to you would be do You believe that Jesus Christ did in fact Exist. If you answer yes to that then how can you deny that he did not fill exactly every single thing in the O.T. What do you feel that he left out.
  #15  
Old Apr 28, '11, 11:59 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
From observation, I think that Catholics (like other Christians) really don't appreciate just how paradigmatically different the two religions are - that Christianity isn't 'Judaism plus Jesus' and Judaism isn't 'Christianity minus Jesus', that many key concepts in one are pretty meaningless in the other and that the two religions just don't 'work' in the same way.

It's those differences that have been for me the most interesting - the apparent similarities, not so much.
What is one scripture in the O.T do you feel that we differ so much from you. Pick anyone you want

Please state the scripture, explain your meaning on it, and what you feel we differ so much on. Thanks
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