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  #1  
Old Apr 28, '11, 8:01 pm
coco2 coco2 is offline
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Default When did praying the Rosary begin

When did the devotion of praying the Rosary begin and is that when the prayer "Hail Mary" originated?
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  #2  
Old Apr 28, '11, 9:21 pm
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

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When did the devotion of praying the Rosary begin and is that when the prayer "Hail Mary" originated?
This article will answer this question.

A Brief History of the Rosary

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Old Apr 28, '11, 10:11 pm
I love rocks I love rocks is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

The Hail Mary is directly from scripture. It began at the Annunciation with the greeting from the Angel, Gabriel. I believe it was a pious practice to carry 150 tiny stones in one's pocket and count on them while reciting all 150 Psalms. This was in Medieval times, but I'd have to look up the date to be sure. 150 Psalms were replaced by the original 3 mysteries of the Rosary on the 5 decades of 10 beads each (equalling 150). I know that the Blessed Mother gave the rosaries and the scapular to St. Dominick at Mt. Carmel, requesting that a shrine be erected on that spot because of it's past history of abominable practices and sacrifices on this mountain. It was consecrated to Mary. However, i believe the rosaries were prayed before the apparition of the Blessed Virgin to St. Dominick at Mt. Carmel. I didn't read the article. I'm not a big fan of links, I guess.
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Old Apr 28, '11, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

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Originally Posted by I love rocks View Post
The Hail Mary is directly from scripture. It began at the Annunciation with the greeting from the Angel, Gabriel. I believe it was a pious practice to carry 150 tiny stones in one's pocket and count on them while reciting all 150 Psalms. This was in Medieval times, but I'd have to look up the date to be sure. 150 Psalms were replaced by the original 3 mysteries of the Rosary on the 5 decades of 10 beads each (equalling 150). I know that the Blessed Mother gave the rosaries and the scapular to St. Dominick at Mt. Carmel, requesting that a shrine be erected on that spot because of it's past history of abominable practices and sacrifices on this mountain. It was consecrated to Mary. However, i believe the rosaries were prayed before the apparition of the Blessed Virgin to St. Dominick at Mt. Carmel. I didn't read the article. I'm not a big fan of links, I guess.
I think that you're confusing two religious orders. Legend says that St. Simon Stock received the scapular from Our Lady at Mt. Carmel. Though the Carmelites say this is not accurate.

Legend also says that the Blessed Mother gave the St. Dominic the rosary. The Dominican order says that this not true either. In addition, St. Dominic was never in Palestine, which is where Mt. Carmel is at.

During the Middle Ages there were monks who did not know how to read. They could not pray the Divine Office. They prayed 150 Our Fathers. They used pebbles to count. Eventually, these pebbles were strung together.

The Hail Mary, as we know it today, did not come into existence until the 1400s. Dominic was long dead. Therefore, he never learned the Hail Mary. What we did have in our tradition was the greeting of the angel and Elizabeth's greeting, without the name of Jesus. These were part of the collect on the feast of the Annunciation (West) and Incarnation (East).

How this collect gradually replaces the 150 Our Fathers is a longer story. What is true is that it was a Dominican Friar who created the first 15 decade rosary and he inserted biblical meditations into it. That's how we get the mysteries.

However, he was not the only person with this idea. The Franciscans had also done something similar. They called it the Crown. Only the Crown has seven decades to it, not five. Over the centuries, there have bee several hundred rosaries and just as many ways of praying them.

It was Pope Pius V, a Dominican, who "institutes" the rosary. I'm using that term for lack of a better term. I'm trying to say that the Dominican Rosary became commonly known and prayed, because the pope who made it popular was a Dominican. Some other rosaries still exist, but they are not very well known by most Catholics.

The bottom line is that all of them grew out of the need for a form of prayer that was easy for the person who could not read. Eventually, these different rosaries became our most cherished form of Marian devotion. It's easy to understand why so. They are simple to learn. They are filled with scripture. They are very powerful prayers.

I wish I could recall, but I can't, who added the "Holy Mary Mother of God . . . " and why? I know that it's in the article.

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Br. JR, OSF
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  #5  
Old Apr 29, '11, 5:23 am
coco2 coco2 is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

When is the earliest record of people praying for Mary to intercede?
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  #6  
Old Apr 29, '11, 5:47 am
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

There is actually another tradition that claims that the Rosary began in the Christian East and was later adapted by St. Dominic for the Christian West. What is today known as the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos" ("Mother of God" in Greek) is believed to have originated some time in the 8th Century. It's use had almost died out in the Christian East in deference to the Jesus Prayer, and in many places had been replaced by the Western Rosary, when St. Seraphim of Sarov, a Russian Orthodox saint of the 18th Century, repopularized it. It does, however, have an unbroken tradition of use on the Holy Mountain of Athos. Some people pray it with 15 Mysteries, others just recite 150 Hail Marys (known as "The Angelic Salutation" in the East) sometimes divided into sets of ten with a "Glory be..." and the "Our Father." The 15 Mysteries of this Prayer Rule are somewhat different from the Western Rosary, but there is plenty of overlap. Anyone interested in further information can simply do a google search for "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." Although the sources may not be the most credible, it is still an interesting thought and does seem to fill the gap between the Early Church and the Medieval period left by the above posted article. Ultimately the Rosary/Prayer Rule of the Theotokos are such ancient traditions that little is known of their origin and we are left with fragments, oral tradition, and legend.
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Old Apr 29, '11, 5:55 am
Joannm Joannm is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
I



I wish I could recall, but I can't, who added the "Holy Mary Mother of God . . . " and why? I know that it's in the article.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
The last part was added by a pope in the 16th century. I can't recall who.
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  #8  
Old Apr 29, '11, 11:50 am
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

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Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
There is actually another tradition that claims that the Rosary began in the Christian East and was later adapted by St. Dominic for the Christian West. What is today known as the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos" ("Mother of God" in Greek) is believed to have originated some time in the 8th Century. It's use had almost died out in the Christian East in deference to the Jesus Prayer, and in many places had been replaced by the Western Rosary, when St. Seraphim of Sarov, a Russian Orthodox saint of the 18th Century, repopularized it. It does, however, have an unbroken tradition of use on the Holy Mountain of Athos. Some people pray it with 15 Mysteries, others just recite 150 Hail Marys (known as "The Angelic Salutation" in the East) sometimes divided into sets of ten with a "Glory be..." and the "Our Father." The 15 Mysteries of this Prayer Rule are somewhat different from the Western Rosary, but there is plenty of overlap. Anyone interested in further information can simply do a google search for "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." Although the sources may not be the most credible, it is still an interesting thought and does seem to fill the gap between the Early Church and the Medieval period left by the above posted article. Ultimately the Rosary/Prayer Rule of the Theotokos are such ancient traditions that little is known of their origin and we are left with fragments, oral tradition, and legend.
The Dominican Friars say that this never happened, that Dominic did promote a devotion to Mary, but he did not know what the rosary was, nor did he promote it. I believe the, because he's their Father. They would know.

I do know that Bernard, Francis, Dominic and Bonaventure were very Marian and promoted all kinds of devotions wrote all kinds of prayers to Our Lady. They did not pull this out of their sleeves. It was a tradition that was in place for centuries and they simply promoted it. Bernard wrote the Memorare. Francis wrote the theology for the Virgin Made Church. Dominic promoted the prayer to Mary. Bonaventure instituted the First Saturdays. Later a Domonican Friar would create the first Dominican Rosary, a Franciscan would create the Crown Rosary and a Carmelite would promote the Brown Scapular of our Lady. Remember, the scupular was already worn by Domincans, some Franciscans, Benedictines, Carthusians and Carmelites. It is a myth that our Lady introduced it. It was an apron. What did happen is that Our Lord promised that those who wore in in honor of his mother would receives special graces. Why pick an apron and not another garment, I don't really know that. The Carmelites would know this.

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Br. JR, OSF
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  #9  
Old Apr 30, '11, 6:59 pm
I love rocks I love rocks is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

JR education, ooopsies... Now that you mention it I KNOW I was confusing St. Dominick with St. Simon Stock. Sorry. :0) Thanks for correcting me.
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  #10  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:00 pm
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
There is actually another tradition that claims that the Rosary began in the Christian East and was later adapted by St. Dominic for the Christian West. What is today known as the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos" ("Mother of God" in Greek) is believed to have originated some time in the 8th Century. It's use had almost died out in the Christian East in deference to the Jesus Prayer, and in many places had been replaced by the Western Rosary, when St. Seraphim of Sarov, a Russian Orthodox saint of the 18th Century, repopularized it. It does, however, have an unbroken tradition of use on the Holy Mountain of Athos. Some people pray it with 15 Mysteries, others just recite 150 Hail Marys (known as "The Angelic Salutation" in the East) sometimes divided into sets of ten with a "Glory be..." and the "Our Father." The 15 Mysteries of this Prayer Rule are somewhat different from the Western Rosary, but there is plenty of overlap. Anyone interested in further information can simply do a google search for "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." Although the sources may not be the most credible, it is still an interesting thought and does seem to fill the gap between the Early Church and the Medieval period left by the above posted article. Ultimately the Rosary/Prayer Rule of the Theotokos are such ancient traditions that little is known of their origin and we are left with fragments, oral tradition, and legend.
I think that what has happened is, as you say, we have been left with fragments and people have filled in the blanks with lovely stories, but none of them true.

Being a Franciscan, I know about this. We have tons of things that are attributed to St. Francis that never came from him. Some came from his sons and daughters who followed later and other things were inspired by him.

There is the one famous quote that everyone attributes to him.

"Preach always, but only when necessary use words." There are ten variations on that quote. The truth is that he never said this. Brother Leo, who was his friend and confidant once said, after Francis' death said about our Holy Father, "He preached always and when necessary used words."

Someone thought it would sound better to put those words into Francis' mouth than to say them about him. This has happened with the Rosary and St. Dominic. St. Dominic certainly promoted a strong Marian devotion as a means to combat heresy, as did Francis and Bonaventure and Aquinas. One of Dominic's sons created the first rosary as we know it today. Somehow we skip a whole segway of history and come up with some apparition in which Dominic receives the rosary. The reality was that the Holy Father, Dominic inspired the love and veneration of Our Lady and one of his sons came modified an already existing form of praying the Divine Office to fit the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.

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  #11  
Old May 1, '11, 10:18 am
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
I think that what has happened is, as you say, we have been left with fragments and people have filled in the blanks with lovely stories, but none of them true.

Being a Franciscan, I know about this. We have tons of things that are attributed to St. Francis that never came from him. Some came from his sons and daughters who followed later and other things were inspired by him.

There is the one famous quote that everyone attributes to him.

"Preach always, but only when necessary use words." There are ten variations on that quote. The truth is that he never said this. Brother Leo, who was his friend and confidant once said, after Francis' death said about our Holy Father, "He preached always and when necessary used words."

Someone thought it would sound better to put those words into Francis' mouth than to say them about him. This has happened with the Rosary and St. Dominic. St. Dominic certainly promoted a strong Marian devotion as a means to combat heresy, as did Francis and Bonaventure and Aquinas. One of Dominic's sons created the first rosary as we know it today. Somehow we skip a whole segway of history and come up with some apparition in which Dominic receives the rosary. The reality was that the Holy Father, Dominic inspired the love and veneration of Our Lady and one of his sons came modified an already existing form of praying the Divine Office to fit the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
True, Its good to see you again envoved my brother. You've been missed. My prayers must have been with you,

Historical evidence by the Vatican exists and we have done many threads on this which can be searched.

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God Bless your, Gary
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Old May 3, '11, 6:27 pm
JamestheOlder JamestheOlder is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

I'm a bit surprised no one has (yet) connected the Rosary to the Liturgy of the Hours (breviary).

The Liturgy of the Hours contains the recitation of 150 Psalms (plus OT and NT readings) over a four-week period. It is available for anyone to say on a daily or "hourly" basis, but is required of those in Holy Orders (reduced requirement for permanent deacons).

As was posted, when monks (dark to middle ages) could not read the Psalms, they arranged to use repetitive prayer....first the Pater Noster, then (later) the Hail Mary (first part, Scriptural part) only. This was repeated 150 times to substitute for the Psalms.

Dominic and Francis certainly broadened the use of "The Rosary", as it became known, and many legends have grown up around it.

While the Rosary is a good and efficacious prayer...to be promoted to all.....please consider that the Liturgy of the Hours is the official prayer of the Church around the world, and all people are invited to pray it.

That being said, the LOTH is sadly missing from most Catholics' lives.
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Old May 4, '11, 11:41 am
clementplace clementplace is offline
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

If you really want to know the history of the rosary, Saint Louis de Montfort explains it in The Secret of the Rosary, Sections: Second rose; Origin, Third Rose; Saint Dominic and Fourth Rose; Blessed Alan de la Roche. He had a unique way of numbering chapters using the term "Rose". I won't try to paraphrase this great saint, but suggest going to the source - his writings. Its about 3-4 pages long on the origins, then he explodes on the rosary topic. Quite Amazing!
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Old May 4, '11, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

James the Older - Thank you for saying that. When I was first preparing for my confirmation, an older couple invited me to join the one morning a week to learn how to pray the LOTH. I went several times. I have the book they gave me that we used. But, it was confusing to me. I never really did understand it and now sadly one has passed on and the other is in mourning. There doesn't seem to be a lot of people who know how to pray the LOTH around. I heard that priests pray them every day, but I've asked a couple of priests and it seems to have fallen out of practice. So, long story long, I didn't make the connection because I don't understand that prayer and it's not readily accessible for someone to teach me. It's not like the kind of prayer you pick up and read and meditate on and learn. It's complicated.
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Old May 4, '11, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: When did praying the Rosary begin

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamestheOlder View Post
I'm a bit surprised no one has (yet) connected the Rosary to the Liturgy of the Hours (breviary).

The Liturgy of the Hours contains the recitation of 150 Psalms (plus OT and NT readings) over a four-week period. It is available for anyone to say on a daily or "hourly" basis, but is required of those in Holy Orders (reduced requirement for permanent deacons).

As was posted, when monks (dark to middle ages) could not read the Psalms, they arranged to use repetitive prayer....first the Pater Noster, then (later) the Hail Mary (first part, Scriptural part) only. This was repeated 150 times to substitute for the Psalms.

Dominic and Francis certainly broadened the use of "The Rosary", as it became known, and many legends have grown up around it.

While the Rosary is a good and efficacious prayer...to be promoted to all.....please consider that the Liturgy of the Hours is the official prayer of the Church around the world, and all people are invited to pray it.

That being said, the LOTH is sadly missing from most Catholics' lives.
Slow down.

Dominic and Francis had nothing to do with the rosary. They both died long before the rosary.

The Hail Mary, even in its primitive form was never used in place of the psalms. The Pater Noster was used in place of the psalms, but only by those who could not read the breviaries. The Hail Mary was part of the collect for the mass of the Annunciation in the West and the Incarnation in the East.

Franciscans and Dominicans never prayed the Hail Mary until later in the 14th century. It is true that a Dominican Friar created the first rosary as we know it and a Franciscan Friar created the Franciscan Crown as we know it. Neither of these replace the Liturgy of the Hours. The Pater Nosters are still allowed in place of the Liturgy of the Hours. The Hail Mary may never be used to replace the Liturgy of the Hours. The reason for the distinction is that the Liturgy of the Hours flows from the mass and leads back to the mass. The mass is Trinitarian.

Mary certainly has a proper place in the prayer life of the Church and the life of the Franciscans and Dominicans. Franciscans, Dominicans and Cistercians did a great deal to promote Marian devotion. However, Bernard, Francis and Dominic never saw a rosary or taught it, nor did they pray the Hail Mary. The three of them, Bernard, Francis and Dominic wrote very special and beautiful prayers to Our Lady, the most famous of all is the Memorare by St. Bernard. They also promoted certain devotions to Our Lady. The Franciscans started the First Saturdays. Later, the Dominicans would teach the Dominican Rosary. The Franciscans defended the Immaculate Conception. But our founders had nothing to do with the rosary. It was an unkown to them, nor did they substitute the Paters with Aves.

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