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  #16  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:18 am
TMC TMC is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Originally Posted by noobio View Post
Our God is diffrent from Allah.

Christians believe God is a trinity who reveals himself as three persons. The quran actaully challenges this belief. The quran states They do blaspheme who say:
Allah is one of three for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them ( 5:73.). Obviously the author of the quran did not understant the trinity.

Christians also believe in the diety of Christ. This contridicts the quran because it says They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." (5:72)

Christians also believe in the crucifixion of Christ which Islam and the quran denies. It says
That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, (4:156-159 ). We can not have the same God since our God sent his son as a sacrifice and there God denies the crucifxion. If Islam denies the curcifixion they also deny the ressurection of Christ.

Islam also denies that Jesus is uniqe son of God ( (Qur’an 3:59). God has a son according to the bible ( Luke 9:35). Jesus is God ( John 8:58). Jesus did die (Mathew 27:50), Jesus did rise from the dead ( Mark 16:6).

Our God and Allah are very diffrent. There is no way that we pray to the same God.
We believe different things about God, but we worship the same God. Jews also reject the Trinity, as did some early Christians. Do they also worship a different God?
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  #17  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:19 am
TMC TMC is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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I challenge the inclusion of the article "the" (which I have highlighted in the quote) in this English translation.

OK, I had one year of high school Latin, but I know Latin does not have articles. The (official) Latin text of Lumen Gentium says:

This means, "Adore (adorant) one (unicum) God (Deum)." It does not mean "Adore THE one God." This is a dubious translation, which includes a nuance that the Council did not teach, and is thus not part of Catholic doctrine. The Church does not assure the accuracy of any translation.

There is no question that the Muslims worship one God, as do we. But our God is one God in three persons, which the Muslims utterly reject. We both worship one God, but we do not worship "THE one God" (which implies they are the same, which they clearly are not).

A more accurate English translation would have omitted the article "the" altogether. This would align the translation more closely with what the Council actually taught.
I think that the Vatican translators probably have more than one year of high school Latin. I'll go with their translation, thanks.
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  #18  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:20 am
TMC TMC is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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I know that Muslims and Christians do not pray to the same God, but do the Jews and Christians pray to the same God?
Please avail yourself of actual Church teaching - Jews, Christians and Muslims pray to the same God.
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  #19  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:20 am
shocktrooper shocktrooper is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post
I challenge the inclusion of the article "the" (which I have highlighted in the quote) in this English translation.

OK, I had one year of high school Latin, but I know Latin does not have articles. The (official) Latin text of Lumen Gentium says:

This means, "Adore (adorant) one (unicum) God (Deum)." It does not mean "Adore THE one God." This is a dubious translation, which includes a nuance that the Council did not teach, and is thus not part of Catholic doctrine. The Church does not assure the accuracy of any translation.

There is no question that the Muslims worship one God, as do we. But our God is one God in three persons, which the Muslims utterly reject. We both worship one God, but we do not worship "THE one God" (which implies they are the same, which they clearly are not).

A more accurate English translation would have omitted the article "the" altogether. This would align the translation more closely with what the Council actually taught.
David, I would have never caught that one. Thanks. Is this understanding widespread among theologians, apologists, and religious (not laypeople)?

Thanks.
  #20  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:22 am
thirddec thirddec is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

Some Christians who speak arabaic do pray to Allah but that isn't the allah of the Koran.
But Muslims who pray to the allah of The Koran are praying to a false god. Jews pray to the same God as we do but by our belief they have ignored the Messiah Christ and intrestingly enough have never asked themselves why have we stopped getting Prophets.
Some would say they are still opporating by a valid covanent with God but I would say no there is a new Covanent as covenants are only valid until the death of a partner in it and as Christ wasGod and died for us He ended the first Covanent when he started the next. Still at least they are praying to the correct God.
  #21  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:37 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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We believe different things about God, but we worship the same God. Jews also reject the Trinity, as did some early Christians. Do they also worship a different God?
That makes no sense to me at all. Our God is a trinity, and there God is not. Therefore they have a different God. There God gave teachings which are anti-Christian. Our God is Jesus Christ. There God is not Jesus Christ. Our God loved the world so much he sacrificed his only son so we can go to heaven. The God of the quran denies this. Can you please explain to me how our God is the same? If you compare the quran and the NT, there is obviously two different Gods. In the NT. In fact, the Quran is anti- Christian.
  #22  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:41 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Please avail yourself of actual Church teaching - Jews, Christians and Muslims pray to the same God.
The quran says that the bible of the jews are corrupt. This is a muslim belief. We believe that God handed down the bible of jews and is not corrupt. You can see there is two diffrent Gods. The God of the bible and there is the God of quran who let the word become corrupted.
  #23  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:44 am
thirddec thirddec is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

The Jews may deny the Trinity but this is just a misunderstanding of the nature of the God they pray to but it doesn't mean they pray to a different God but the god of the Koran is not the God of the Bible. Please show me in the Church teaching that the allah that calls for Killing all the jews and christians in the Koran is the same God we pray too. Now if ever theres an example of a house divided amoungst itself thats it. Show me that in the teaching of the Catholic Church ib the Catechism or dogma and I may be off to the Orthodox Church. That's New Age Thinking. Ecumenism should never be at the expense of truth ; it should be working together but we as Catholics have the FULL truth and the CORRECT GOD.
  #24  
Old Apr 30, '11, 7:55 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Originally Posted by noobio View Post
I know that Muslims and Christians do not pray to the same God, but do the Jews and Christians pray to the same God?
Aren't you the one who set what I have quoted below as the criteria for who worships our same God?

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Originally Posted by noobio View Post
[Insert religion here] denies that Jesus is uniqe son of God[...] God has a son according to the bible ( Luke 9:35). Jesus is God ( John 8:58). Jesus did die (Mathew 27:50), Jesus did rise from the dead ( Mark 16:6).

[...] There is no way that we pray to the same God.
It seems strange to me that you would discriminate against Muslims for denying the above but not Jews.
I personally feel as though we all worship the same God of Abraham, but I'm sure there are some Muslims, Christians, and Jews who would disagree with me. Oh well...
On a related note, do you think non-Trinitarian Christians worship a different God from us, since they do not believe that God is a Trinity?
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  #25  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:02 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

I would say that they worship God; but that their notion/concept of God is inadequate. How much one could say that this means they do not worship the same God as us I am not sure.
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  #26  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:08 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

The 3 pray to the same Creator. But the Jews and Muslims are missing the "Redeemer" and "Sanctifier", the Son and the Holy Spirit.
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  #27  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Originally Posted by ClamDigger View Post
Aren't you the one who set what I have quoted below as the criteria for who worships our same God?



It seems strange to me that you would discriminate against Muslims for denying the above but not Jews.
I personally feel as though we all worship the same God of Abraham, but I'm sure there are some Muslims, Christians, and Jews who would disagree with me. Oh well...
On a related note, do you think non-Trinitarian Christians worship a different God from us, since they do not believe that God is a Trinity?
I am not disciminateing against Muslims. I am just saying what the Quran says about Jesus and the Christian faith. The God of the Quran is obviously different from the God of the NT. I did not say anything about Judaism because the jewish bible does not say anything that is against the NT.

The trinity is essential to the Christian faith. So, yes, I do think non-trinitarians are not worshiping God. You may see this as discimination but, think about it. The doctrine of the trinity, teaches that the Holy Spirit, God the Faher, God the Son are different persons but all of them are God. So, a person who denies the trinity usually denies that the Holy Spirit is a person and that Jesus God and so they don't worship them. Therefore, they are not worshiping all of the persons who are one God, who is a trinity.
  #28  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:27 am
thirddec thirddec is offline
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Originally Posted by ESMDHokie77 View Post
The 3 pray to the same Creator. But the Jews and Muslims are missing the "Redeemer" and "Sanctifier", the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Ok I've tried to say this nicely but as far as i'm concerned the allah of the Koran is either the delusion of a tyrant or satan himself disguised as an angel. The fact that they follow up by mohammed is his prophet ties it. So if you believe its the same god go ahead but remember mohammed is his prophet. so they are not praying to the same God as me ; anything else is NEW AGE claptrap. Thats not to say God is not mercifull and will Judge them according to His Divine Standards at the end.
  #29  
Old Apr 30, '11, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

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Originally Posted by ESMDHokie77 View Post
The 3 pray to the same Creator. But the Jews and Muslims are missing the "Redeemer" and "Sanctifier", the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Which one is the creater. The God who mohommad revealed to the world or the God of the bible. I am going to try to prove that the God of the quran is a different God of the Bible.

Our God sent his son to die for us. The quran denies this and says allah decieved everyone into believing that Jesus died. Our God actaully did love the world so much that he sacrificed his only son ( John 3:16). The quran challenges the trinity. The trinity is essential to the Christian faith and is biblical. God refers to himself as "us" which means he is more then one person ( Gen 1:26). Our God has a beloved son ( Luke 9:35).
I am basicly repeating myself in this thread.

You might answere " we just believe in different things about the same God". The God of the quran challenges the nature of God which is that God is a trinity. It denies that Jesus is God. We believe in the teachings that the quran denies. How is it possible if our God to be the same as the Islamic God if our God is Jesus, and there God is not.
  #30  
Old Apr 30, '11, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Do the Jews of today and Muslims pray to the Christian God?

I have no interest in defending Islam. I agree that the denial of Jesus Christ as God the Son is very troubling.

I am drawing my thoughts to a story that I heard Scott Hahn give about a debate that he was supposed to have with a muslim scholar. Whenever Scott referred to God the Father, or God the Son, the muslim accused him of blaspheming, and they never had that debate since the muslim was too offended. Muslims reject that God is a Father and loves His creations as a father would love children. Muslims hold God to be Creator, only. That muslim scholar gave an example: He had a pet dog. He had signed a new lease for a new apartment. The new apartment doesn't allow pets. He was going to kill his dog. Even though he said he loved his dog as a underling, not as a part of his family.

Christians embrace the familial bond between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. A Father who loves His children.
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