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  #1  
Old May 2, '11, 8:24 am
ANNE 2 ANNE 2 is offline
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Default Pope sacks Bishop

THE Catholic Bishop of Toowoomba, William Morris, has been effectively sacked by Pope Benedict XVI over doctrinal disobedience for his support for ordaining women priests and other liberal reform.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226048036161
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  #2  
Old May 2, '11, 8:34 am
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by the article
In his letter, Bishop Morris said the Vatican's decision was sparked by complaints to Rome about an Advent letter he wrote in 2006. In that letter, he argued that with an ageing clergy the church should be open to all eventualities, including ordaining women, ordaining married men, welcoming back former priests and recognising the validity of Anglican, Lutheran and Uniting Church orders.


Erm.... those do seem to be unconventional positions for a Catholic bishop to publicly tell his flock.

Quote:
The Advent pastoral letter sparked an investigation, led by Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver, Colorado, one of the most respected Catholic clerics in the US, who visited Toowoomba and spoke to priests and laity at length, and also spoke with other Australian bishops.

In the letter read out yesterday, Bishop Morris said that visit led to an "ongoing dialogue between myself and the Congregations for Bishops, Divine Worship and Doctrine of the Faith and eventually Pope Benedict".
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  #3  
Old May 2, '11, 8:45 am
ANNE 2 ANNE 2 is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

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Originally Posted by Dale_M View Post


Erm.... those do seem to be unconventional positions for a Catholic bishop to publicly tell his flock.
It is very unusual for a Bishop to make his sacking public.
But apparently he refused to change his views/actions even after 5 years of working with the Vatican.
We are only hearing his side of the story in this article.
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  #4  
Old May 2, '11, 8:50 am
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

A bit more information:

Quote:
The Vatican said in a statement Monday that the pope had "removed from pastoral care" Bishop William Morris of the Toowoomba diocese, west of Brisbane.

That move was strong by the standards of the Vatican, which usually stops short of saying outright that it has ousted a church leader. More often, the Vatican asks wayward church leaders to resign and then announces the pope has accepted their resignations.
Quote:
A month ago, the Vatican dismissed a Congolese bishop, Jean-Claude Makaya Loemba, also saying he was "removed from pastoral care." According to African media reports, he was fired for management problems in his diocese.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...e2292dc668e00e
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  #5  
Old May 2, '11, 9:18 am
ANNE 2 ANNE 2 is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

Here is only the Bishop's side of the story in his own words - - -
http://www.catholica.com.au/misc/+BillMorrisLtr.pdf

Even Bishops who stray from the teachings of the Church, must repent and correct their errors - or face the consequences of their obstinate actions.
All this Bishop had to do way to revoke and clarify his statements, yet he refused to do so.

Refusal results in one of the following:
CCC- "2089
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
Apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff, or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."
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  #6  
Old May 2, '11, 11:03 am
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Scoobyshme Scoobyshme is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNE 2 View Post
THE Catholic Bishop of Toowoomba, William Morris, has been effectively sacked by Pope Benedict XVI over doctrinal disobedience for his support for ordaining women priests and other liberal reform.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226048036161
I think the Pope could sack a lot more bishops, if he had proof. There have been many bishops who did not believe all the Church taught. Unfortunately, they didn't have the integrity to resign.

I remember some time back when a certain little nun who ran a particular Catholic TV station said some disparaging remarks about a particular high-ranking member of the clergy out west. At a meeting of bishops, one of them got up and said they needed to get rid of the little nun with the big mouth because nuns shouldn't be going around making disparaging remarks about the hierarchy. One bishop stood up and said, "You're right. Nuns shouldn't be making disparaging remarks about members of the hierarchy. We should get rid of her. BUT, before we do, I have a list of 178 bishops who openly defy the teachings of the Church and the authority of the Holy Father. I say we get rid of them first!" The room became deadly silent and the topic was not brought up again.
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  #7  
Old May 2, '11, 11:27 am
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

It seems that he didn't mean these comments to be taken literally, but I can see how they would have been.

Bishop of Toowoomba, William Morris' 2006 Advent Pastoral Letter to the parish:

Quote:
“Given our deeply held belief in the primacy of Eucharist for the identity, continuity and life of each parish community, we may well need to be much more open towards other options of ensuring that Eucharist may be celebrated. Several responses have been discussed internationally, nationally and locally

• ordaining married, single or widowed men who are chosen and endorsed by their local parish community

• welcoming former priests, married or single back to active ministry

• ordaining women, married or single

• recognising Anglican, Lutheran and Uniting Church Orders

While we continue to reflect carefully on these options we remain committed to actively promoting vocations to the current celibate male priesthood and open to inviting priests from overseas. What is certain however is that Easter 2014 is irrevocably approaching!

Please take some time to give these matters serious thought and reflection.”
He later removed the 2006 letter from the diocese' website and added this response:

Quote:
"In my Advent Pastoral Letter of 2006 I outlined some of the challenges facing the diocese into the future.

In that letter I made reference to various options about ordination that were and are being talked about in various places, as part of an exercise in the further investigation of truth in these matters.

Unfortunately some people seem to have interpreted that reference as suggesting that I was personally initiating options that are contrary to the doctrine and discipline of the Church.

As a bishop I cannot and would not do that and I indicated this in the local media at the time.

I and all the bishops of the Catholic Church form a college with the Holy Father and cannot act contrary to the teaching and practice of the Universal Church.

Encouraging vocations to the priesthood must remain a priority for our local Church and we pray this Christmas and as we begin the New Year that more young men will consider deeply their response to God’s call."
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  #8  
Old May 2, '11, 11:47 am
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobyshme View Post
I think the Pope could sack a lot more bishops, if he had proof. There have been many bishops who did not believe all the Church taught. Unfortunately, they didn't have the integrity to resign.

I remember some time back when a certain little nun who ran a particular Catholic TV station said some disparaging remarks about a particular high-ranking member of the clergy out west. At a meeting of bishops, one of them got up and said they needed to get rid of the little nun with the big mouth because nuns shouldn't be going around making disparaging remarks about the hierarchy. One bishop stood up and said, "You're right. Nuns shouldn't be making disparaging remarks about members of the hierarchy. We should get rid of her. BUT, before we do, I have a list of 178 bishops who openly defy the teachings of the Church and the authority of the Holy Father. I say we get rid of them first!" The room became deadly silent and the topic was not brought up again.
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  #9  
Old May 2, '11, 12:01 pm
StevieD StevieD is offline
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Default Re: Pope sacks Bishop

Let's hope that he is the first of many.
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  #10  
Old May 2, '11, 4:27 pm
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1holycatholic 1holycatholic is offline
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Post Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall
A GANG of right-wing Catholics, dubbed the "Temple police", are being blamed for the downfall of Toowoomba Bishop William Morris.

The group, which allegedly travelled around parishes to spy on progressive priests who do not toe the Vatican line, was believed to be involved in the popular priest's ousting.

The Pope last night renounced Bishop Morris' leadership over his support for ordaining women as priests among other liberal reforms.
...
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  #11  
Old May 2, '11, 5:47 pm
ChadS ChadS is offline
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Default Re: Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1holycatholic View Post
Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall
A GANG of right-wing Catholics, dubbed the "Temple police", are being blamed for the downfall of Toowoomba Bishop William Morris.

The group, which allegedly travelled around parishes to spy on progressive priests who do not toe the Vatican line, was believed to be involved in the popular priest's ousting.

The Pope last night renounced Bishop Morris' leadership over his support for ordaining women as priests among other liberal reforms.
...
So what they're saying is the truth isn't important to them and things that are to be believed with the full assent of faith are to be held as mere opinion. On that alone if the Bishop can't tell the difference between those two then he shouldn't be in that see anyhow.

From the little I've read this bishop had 5 years of dialogue to come around to the truth, not the Vatican line (as it's derisively referred to). The Pope has every right to remove bishops that can't or won't speak the truth in union with the Magisterium. A corporation or business wouldn't tolerate a senior manager that refused to market a product the way the headquarters wanted or bad-mouthed their product. So if it's okay to remove those sorts of people then why wouldn't it be okay to remove a rogue bishop?

ChadS
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  #12  
Old May 2, '11, 7:46 pm
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1holycatholic 1holycatholic is offline
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Default Re: Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
So what they're saying is the truth isn't important to them and things that are to be believed with the full assent of faith are to be held as mere opinion. On that alone if the Bishop can't tell the difference between those two then he shouldn't be in that see anyhow.

From the little I've read this bishop had 5 years of dialogue to come around to the truth, not the Vatican line (as it's derisively referred to). The Pope has every right to remove bishops that can't or won't speak the truth in union with the Magisterium. A corporation or business wouldn't tolerate a senior manager that refused to market a product the way the headquarters wanted or bad-mouthed their product. So if it's okay to remove those sorts of people then why wouldn't it be okay to remove a rogue bishop?

ChadS
From the linked article in the OP:
Fr Dorfield said Bishop Morris was considered to have questioned Church teaching through views expressed in his Advent Letter of 2006 on the widespread discussion of the ordination of women and the recognition of Anglican and other Church Orders.
Ruh roh!

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
PROFESSION OF FAITH
...
A similar process can be observed in the more recent teaching regarding the doctrine that priestly ordination is reserved only to men. The Supreme Pontiff, while not wishing to proceed to a dogmatic definition, intended to reaffirm that this doctrine is to be held definitively,32 since, founded on the written word of God, constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium.33 As the prior example illustrates, this does not foreclose the possibility that, in the future, the consciousness of the Church might progress to the point where this teaching could be defined as a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed.
[...]
With regard to those truths connected to revelation by historical necessity and which are to be held definitively, but are not able to be declared as divinely revealed, the following examples can be given: the legitimacy of the election of the Supreme Pontiff or of the celebration of an ecumenical council, the canonizations of saints (dogmatic facts), the declaration of Pope Leo XIII in the Apostolic Letter Apostolicae Curae on the invalidity of Anglican ordinations.37...
...
It sounds like Rome gave the bishop years to conform to the truth, yet he persisted in his error and forced Rome to act.
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  #13  
Old May 2, '11, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

This Bishop is confronting the truth that many countries are facing. There is a shortage of priests. All the priests in his diocese bar 3 wrote letters to Rome supporting him.

As far as I am aware he wanted to 'start a dialogue not a revolution' regarding women priests which is still a 'discipline' therefore, it can be changed. I don't see why the
dialogue/debate could not be had. He also wanted to discuss the possibility of Anglican priests assisting (IMO unwise).

Where are small country towns in rural Australia going to get their priests from? There are also other parishes around the world who cannot get enough priests. Would we rather see these smaller parishes close down and the Catholics there have no access to the Sacraments. In a country as big as ours, you drive for hours before you reach the next town.
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  #14  
Old May 2, '11, 8:12 pm
LOCO LOCO is offline
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Default Re: Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

Father Frank Brennan, Jesuit Priest, Yarralumla, ACT, AUSTRALIA

I'M sure many Catholics share my deep sorrow at the news of the enforced retirement of Bishop Morris. In the shock and bewilderment at the failure of many in the church hierarchy to openly deal with the scandal of sexual abuse, the integrity and honesty shown in Morris's response to the issue and his management of the Toowoomba diocese was like a light in a dark night.

If, as reported, it's his questioning of the present regulations regarding appropriate candidates for the priesthood that has led to this response from the Vatican, it's hard to comprehend the weighting being used in its decision-making. A bishop has a primary role as the supporter and carer for the priests in a diocese and is surely in a position to enter into informed debate on questions relating to appropriate candidates for the priesthood. To have given more focus to condemnation of a caring opinion than to the good that could come from it is an example of folly.
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Old May 2, '11, 8:15 pm
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Default Re: Parishioners feel angry as 'temple police' blamed for Toowoomba Bishop William Morris' downfall

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOCO View Post
This Bishop is confronting the truth that many countries are facing. There is a shortage of priests. All the priests in his diocese bar 3 wrote letters to Rome supporting him.

As far as I am aware he wanted to 'start a dialogue not a revolution' regarding women priests which is still a 'discipline' therefore, it can be changed. I don't see why the
dialogue/debate could not be had. He also wanted to discuss the possibility of Anglican priests assisting (IMO unwise).

Where are small country towns in rural Australia going to get their priests from? There are also other parishes around the world who cannot get enough priests. Would we rather see these smaller parishes close down and the Catholics there have no access to the Sacraments. In a country as big as ours, you drive for hours before you reach the next town.

This has nothing to do with a priest shortage. If the Bishop really believed that Anglican ministers were a valid substitute for Catholic priests he is even more confused than the first article indicated. The all male priesthood is NOT a discipline, it is doctrinal teaching. The teaching of the Church on the ministerial priesthood is an essential teaching. If the Bishop cannot teach with the heart of the Church it is not appropriate that he remain in a position where he can damage the faith of so many.
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