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  #1  
Old May 5, '11, 7:06 pm
caoindealbhan caoindealbhan is offline
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Default IQuestions on hell

Being a cafeteria Catholic, I guess I need to face the fact, I'm going to hell. I don't actually know much about the place, though. For instance:

Why would God create such a place? I mean, a place where there is no hope for redemption and also a place where God isn't... seems kind of final.

I thought God was everywhere and that everything he created was good. I wonder......

Why did God create a place that He is not allowed to go to? (Although they allowed him to visit once)
Wouldn't he be curious or miss those that go there? I'm sure God still loves them.

Fire seems rather on the dramatic side. Isn't there a more modern twist to life in hell? Absence of the internet, cookie dough ice cream, and candy corn for instance.

Some misguided cafeteria (redundancy) Catholics might make it to the 2nd tier (purgatory) and hope is still alive there, but I hear it moves at an awfully slow pace. Can't some people from hell fill out transfer papers?

Well, I KNOW i'M ASKING FOR IT AND i'M SURE iLL GET AN EAR FULL. sO LET ME HAVE IT

I'm sure you'll do it lovingly. God bless.
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  #2  
Old May 5, '11, 8:09 pm
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michelleds michelleds is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

[19] There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. [20] And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

[21] Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. [22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom*. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. [23] And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: [24] And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. [25] And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

[26] And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. [27] And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren, [28] That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. [29] And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. [30] But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

[31] And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

*Note: [22] "Abraham's bosom"... The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death.
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  #3  
Old May 5, '11, 8:29 pm
Robertanthony Robertanthony is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
Being a cafeteria Catholic
and a troll? You can't wait to have the word "banned" under your name, can you?
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  #4  
Old May 5, '11, 8:33 pm
caoindealbhan caoindealbhan is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertanthony View Post
and a troll? You can't wait to have the word "banned" under your name, can you?
And why would I be banned? I'm a good and upstanding cafeteria Catholic!
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  #5  
Old May 5, '11, 8:53 pm
Robertanthony Robertanthony is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

At least you're a funny troll!
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  #6  
Old May 5, '11, 9:03 pm
fred conty fred conty is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

But if the damned are impenitent, how can Scripture (Wisdom 5) say they repent of their sin? They deplore with the utmost intensity the punishment, but not the malice of sin; to this they cling more tenaciously than ever. Had they an opportunity, they would commit the sin again, not indeed for the sake of its gratification, which they found illusive, but out of sheer hatred of God. They are ashamed of their folly which led them to seek happiness in sin, but not of the malice of sin itself (St. Thomas, Theol. comp., c. cxxv).

www.olrl.org/snt_docs/
Try the above.
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  #7  
Old May 5, '11, 9:30 pm
ANNE 2 ANNE 2 is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

caoindealbhan -
God has great mercy, but is also just. Nothing is too bad for God to forgive. To get to Heaven, you have to want to go there first.
Then you have to go to Confession, and try to adhere to the "CCC 2nd Ed".

If you don't want to be with God forever, He will not make you.

CCC - "1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."
The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."

CCC - " 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end.
In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance".

CCC - " 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.
The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.
He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

CCC - " 1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence.
Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin.
On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory.
This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin.
These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain."

If you die in the state of Mortal sin, there is no get out of jail free card.
So hurry up and quit being a cafeteria Catholic. Time may be shorter than you think.
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  #8  
Old May 5, '11, 9:54 pm
JULIAN PINTO JULIAN PINTO is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

let me answer all of your questions one by one

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
Being a cafeteria Catholic, I guess I need to face the fact, I'm going to hell.
why are you waiting to go to hell....it is a dreadfull place where there is eternal torture. make a good confession and change your way of living.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
I don't actually know much about the place, though. For instance:
Why would God create such a place? I mean, a place where there is no hope for redemption and also a place where God isn't... seems kind of final.
God was forced to create such a place when one of His most beautiful angels rebelled against Him by thinking "i will take a place that is highest". 1/3rd of angels supported him. so God created hell and sent all of these there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
I thought God was everywhere and that everything he created was good. I wonder......
Why did God create a place that He is not allowed to go to? (Although they allowed him to visit once)
there is no place that God is not allowed to go to. He just does not allow Himself to go there because those in hell are against Him. and no one has the right to give God permission to do anything. He does as He pleases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
Wouldn't he be curious or miss those that go there? I'm sure God still loves them.
Fire seems rather on the dramatic side. Isn't there a more modern twist to life in hell? Absence of the internet, cookie dough ice cream, and candy corn for instance.
Some misguided cafeteria (redundancy) Catholics might make it to the 2nd tier (purgatory) and hope is still alive there, but I hear it moves at an awfully slow pace. Can't some people from hell fill out transfer papers?
Well, I KNOW i'M ASKING FOR IT AND i'M SURE iLL GET AN EAR FULL. sO LET ME HAVE IT
I'm sure you'll do it lovingly. God bless.
He loves each of us equally. He cries when He sees us sin. but we are given a certain time to live and we should make good use of it. if we have lived a sinful life and not repented He is forced to let us go though it hurts Him very much.
be blessed.
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  #9  
Old May 5, '11, 9:58 pm
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kimbari kimbari is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

I'm a convert who fell away from the faith about three years after my baptism. I guess for a while I was a cafeteria Catholic (I wasn't married and I wanted to have sex, so I did), but after a while just going to mass every Sunday got to be too much for me. I guess the "final" break came when I decided to have my tubes tied. It's funny, the reason I had the operation was so I would never be faced with needing an abortion. I always knew that the "thing" in the womb had a soul, and was therefore a person right from the beginning. I knew if I didn't do something major to prevent it, I would have more babies. I was a single mom with three kids already. I couldn't risk it, so I had it done and then threw away that wonderful gift of faith and went my own way.

For more than 20 years, I would say my religion was Catholic, but I didn't practice. I thought briefly about returning a time or two, but somewhere in those two decades I became an atheist. I hated God and religion. I didn't believe in ANYTHING. The world got darker and darker and finally something in me snapped and I ended up in an out-patient psych program. I had clinical depression and I ended up in the nutball class because I wanted to kill my boss (RAGE issues) and myself. The program helped. Properly medicated, the first thing I was able to do was look up and notice the color of the sky and the trees. I hadn't seen the colors in *years*, and it seemed to me that God had returned, after a long absence.

Still, it took me another couple of years to finally return, and this happened just before Ash Wednesday. I attended mass a couple of times, and took Communion, even though I knew I was in mortal sin and hadn't been to confession. (I figured I really needed it, Jesus wouldn't mind, and there was no point in even going to mass if I didn't take communion. As you can see, I still need work on that obedience thing.) I finally went to confession and had to tell Father that it had been 28 years since my last confession and I'd racked up a lot of sins in that time. I'll tell you what I told him: that my main sin, the one from which all my other sins had sprung, was pride. I thought I knew better than God, how to live *my* life, what to teach *my* kids. I realized that, not so much my life, but the lives of my three innocent children would have been so much better had I not abandoned God and the Church. But *I* knew what *I* was doing; it was MY life, you see, so who would know better?

Well, *I* know better, now. It is damn hard to be a Catholic, which is why there are so many people out there with their trays, reaching for the tasty dessert and passing on the nutritious but hard-to-digest stuff like chastity and obedience. It is HARD to relinquish your autonomy, to say: okay, I'm not sure this is really right, but I will toe Your line on the right to life, and contraception, and other things I hadn't agreed with, because You say, through Your priests, that this is the right way. And if I obey, then no matter how difficult life got, for whatever reason, You'll always have my back.

As for Hell... who knows? What difference does it make when you wouldn't know Hell if it slapped you upside your head because you've been *living* in it all along. Hell is place but more than that it is the absence of God in your life. You don't miss something you never had.

I feel for you, troll or no, because I've been there in the darkness, as certain as anything that I was going the right way because it was the way *I* had decided to go. I opened my eyes (with God's help) and realized that way was death. You know what was really amazing? When I turned around to head back, He was right there. I didn't have to take a single step in His direction. He came to me.

Enjoy your dessert.
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  #10  
Old May 5, '11, 10:08 pm
Ne_OrangeKnight Ne_OrangeKnight is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
I mean, a place where there is no hope for redemption and also a place where God isn't... seems kind of final.
It's very final. It's a place for all those who, by their actions in this life, choose not to live in God's love.

Quote:
I thought God was everywhere and that everything he created was good. I wonder......
He did make everything good. But He also gave us free will, and allows us to choose evil.

Quote:
Why did God create a place that He is not allowed to go to? (Although they allowed him to visit once)
Wouldn't he be curious or miss those that go there? I'm sure God still loves them.
You seem to have some mistaken ideas, here. Hell isn't a place where God isn't allowed to go; it's the state of having utterly removed yourself from His grace and goodness. And it's not that God stopped loving everyone there; it's that they rejected His love.

Also, no one allowed Jesus to "visit" Hell. One, no one can stop Jesus from doing as He will. But the part in the Creed about him descending into Hell doesn't refer to the fiery place of torment. Hell originally referred to the general abode of the dead before Jesus opened the gates of Heaven by His cross and resurrection; it was the same place called "Sheol" or "Hades." "Gehenna" was the original word for what we now think of as Hell.

Quote:
Fire seems rather on the dramatic side. Isn't there a more modern twist to life in hell? Absence of the internet, cookie dough ice cream, and candy corn for instance.
Would you really rather be burned by unquenchable fire than lose your Internet access? Are those two equivalent for you? Sorry to say, but that's pretty twisted.

Quote:
Some misguided cafeteria (redundancy) Catholics might make it to the 2nd tier (purgatory) and hope is still alive there, but I hear it moves at an awfully slow pace. Can't some people from hell fill out transfer papers?
Purgatory is not a different level of Hell. Those in Purgatory are absolutely saved, while those in Hell are absolutely not.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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  #11  
Old May 6, '11, 8:29 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by caoindealbhan View Post
Being a cafeteria Catholic, I guess I need to face the fact, I'm going to hell. I don't actually know much about the place, though. For instance:

Why would God create such a place? I mean, a place where there is no hope for redemption and also a place where God isn't... seems kind of final.

I thought God was everywhere and that everything he created was good. I wonder......

Why did God create a place that He is not allowed to go to? (Although they allowed him to visit once)
Wouldn't he be curious or miss those that go there? I'm sure God still loves them.

Fire seems rather on the dramatic side. Isn't there a more modern twist to life in hell? Absence of the internet, cookie dough ice cream, and candy corn for instance.

Some misguided cafeteria (redundancy) Catholics might make it to the 2nd tier (purgatory) and hope is still alive there, but I hear it moves at an awfully slow pace. Can't some people from hell fill out transfer papers?

Well, I KNOW i'M ASKING FOR IT AND i'M SURE iLL GET AN EAR FULL. sO LET ME HAVE IT

I'm sure you'll do it lovingly. God bless.
Assuming you are not a troll why would you boast about rejecting Christ and his Church?
Let's use the correct word for cafeteria Catholic. Its heretic!
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  #12  
Old May 6, '11, 9:06 am
caoindealbhan caoindealbhan is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Thank you, one and all. I'm reading many an "impassioned" missal on the horrors of hell. It certainly doesn't sound like an upscale neighborhood. I'll see what I can do about not having to move there, but then again I make no promises. I am an old man (50), and kind of set in my ways. I guess I've seen too much suffering and destruction in life. My pendulum swings totally the other way, to rush and take away all suffering from as many people as I can. It is possible, I could be wrong.

As one person posted : "Maybe a near death experience will cure me."

Actually, I've lived through three of those. No dice.

Perhaps being struck by lightning off a horse will do it. I don't have a horse. I do a lot of mowing. Maybe being struck by lightning while pushing the mower will do it. Who knows?

As I tell my children, "No one gets up in the morning and says, 'Today I think I'll ruin my life and the lives of everyone I meet.'"

I think everyone tries to do the best they can, with what they have.

Thanks again, and keep telling me about hell.
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  #13  
Old May 6, '11, 10:08 am
stevekehl stevekehl is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

You have asked a lot of questions and I'll try to hep, but first off, what is a cafeteria Catholic? Does this mean you embrace the aspects of Christianity you like and ignore the ones you don't. If this is the case, then ask yourself what our society would be like if people only obeyed the laws they liked and disobeyed the ones they didn't ( the IRS would be even busier than they are). People who disobey our laws are sent to prison, if you think prisons are a good thing, then hell must be good as well. Personally, I am motivated to obey God out of gratitude for all He has done for me (too long to list here), but if fear of hell will motivate someone to run into God's arms then praise God. Fire is used because it is something everyone, all over the world, can relate to. But let's go back to the prison analogy. Imagine a prison with no guards, no rules, no depravity too black; you will never be released, you can't die, there is no safe place, you must constantly battle to survive, if you are beaten to a bloody pulp there is no mercy, no pause, until your attacker decides to stop. Then it can start all over 5 minutes later. Constant darkness, constant fear, constant pain, constant lonliness, constant hunger, never comfortable, never safe, no friends, no family, no reprieve, no end. This is hell. How does that sound compared to no ice cream. People ask why would God send us to hell. Let me tell you, He doesn't. The first time I sinned I deserved to go to hell, but God in His grace and mercy withheld His judgment and provided me a way to bridge the gap I created with my sin, accepting Jesus as my Savior. I no longer fear hell, I am confident in my salvation. When I die I will go to heaven and fall at the feet that took the nails for me. People who go to hell refuse to humble themselves before God for their short lifetime, do you think they would humble themselves before God for all eternity. Those in hell have chosen that end for themselves. But God is gracious, anyone wishing to turn around with a contrite heart and true repentance there is salvation.
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  #14  
Old May 6, '11, 10:53 am
caoindealbhan caoindealbhan is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekehl View Post
You have asked a lot of questions and I'll try to hep, but first off, what is a cafeteria Catholic? Does this mean you embrace the aspects of Christianity you like and ignore the ones you don't. (I don't know if I'd put it quite that pat. It is more of a dissent of belief either in the true worth of the aspect of faith or its alignment to the Great Commandment) If this is the case, then ask yourself what our society would be like if people only obeyed the laws they liked and disobeyed the ones they didn't ( the IRS would be even busier than they are). People who disobey our laws are sent to prison, if you think prisons are a good thing, then hell must be good as well. Personally, I am motivated to obey God out of gratitude for all He has done for me (too long to list here), but if fear of hell will motivate someone to run into God's arms then praise God. Fire is used because it is something everyone, all over the world, can relate to. But let's go back to the prison analogy. Imagine a prison with no guards, no rules, no depravity too black; you will never be released, you can't die, there is no safe place, you must constantly battle to survive, if you are beaten to a bloody pulp there is no mercy, no pause, until your attacker decides to stop. Then it can start all over 5 minutes later. Constant darkness, constant fear, constant pain, constant lonliness, constant hunger, never comfortable, never safe, no friends, no family, no reprieve, no end. This is hell. How does that sound compared to no ice cream. People ask why would God send us to hell. Let me tell you, He doesn't. The first time I sinned I deserved to go to hell, but God in His grace and mercy withheld His judgment and provided me a way to bridge the gap I created with my sin, accepting Jesus as my Savior. I no longer fear hell, I am confident in my salvation. When I die I will go to heaven and fall at the feet that took the nails for me. People who go to hell refuse to humble themselves before God for their short lifetime, do you think they would humble themselves before God for all eternity. Those in hell have chosen that end for themselves. But God is gracious, anyone wishing to turn around with a contrite heart and true repentance there is salvation.
Thanks for sharing. I think my ice cream would melt in such a place.
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  #15  
Old May 6, '11, 12:13 pm
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Nelka Nelka is offline
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Default Re: IQuestions on hell

Sister Faustina's Vision of Hell

"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)


The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy


"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:

The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.

The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is:
That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)

http://www.divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm
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