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  #1  
Old May 30, '11, 12:46 pm
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antihippy79 antihippy79 is offline
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Default God hates certain people?

I was reading Psalms and came across Psalm 5: "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity."

God hates people who do iniquity? I thought He loved sinners? I found about four of five other random quotes where God is said to hate a certain group of people. Is this true that God hates some people? This seems contrary to what I thought I knew.
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  #2  
Old May 30, '11, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antihippy79 View Post
I was reading Psalms and came across Psalm 5: "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity."

God hates people who do iniquity? I thought He loved sinners? I found about four of five other random quotes where God is said to hate a certain group of people. Is this true that God hates some people? This seems contrary to what I thought I knew.
Gods anger is a good thing because out of His Love He wants to Change and correct us. I guess i can't say too much more with certainty, waiting for better responses.
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  #3  
Old May 30, '11, 1:19 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Hebrews 12

Quote:

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews12.htm

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us 2 and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before Him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken His seat at the right of the throne of God.

Consider how He endured such opposition from sinners, in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood.

You have also forgotten the exhortation addressed to you as sons:

"My son, do not disdain the discipline of the Lord or lose heart when reproved by Him; for whom the Lord loves, He disciplines; He scourges every son He acknowledges."

Endure your trials as "discipline"; God treats you as sons. For what "son" is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are without discipline, in which all have shared, you are not sons but bastards. Besides this, we have had our earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. Should we not (then) submit all the more to the Father of spirits and live?

They disciplined us for a short time as seemed right to them, but He does so for our benefit, in order that we may share His holiness. At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it.

So strengthen your drooping hands and your weak knees. Make straight paths for your feet, that what is lame may not be dislocated but healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

3 See to it that no one be deprived of the grace of God, that no bitter root spring up and cause trouble, through which many may become defiled, that no one be an immoral or profane person like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.

For you know that later, when he wanted to inherit his father's blessing, he was rejected because he found no opportunity to change his mind, even though he sought the blessing with tears.

4 You have not approached that which could be touched 5 and a blazing fire and gloomy darkness and storm and a trumpet blast and a voice speaking words such that those who heard begged that no message be further addressed to them, for they could not bear to hear the command:

"If even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stoned."

Indeed, so fearful was the spectacle that Moses said, "I am terrified and trembling."

No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, 6 and God the judge of all, and the spirits of the just made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood that speaks more eloquently 7 than that of Abel.

See that you do not reject the one who speaks. For if they did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, how much more in our case if we turn away from the one who warns from heaven.

His voice shook the earth at that time, but now He has promised, "I will once more shake not only earth but heaven."

That phrase, "once more," points to (the) removal of shaken, created things, so that what is unshaken may remain. Therefore, we who are receiving the unshakable kingdom should have gratitude, with which we should offer worship pleasing to God in reverence and awe. For our God is a consuming fire.
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  #4  
Old May 30, '11, 1:20 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Footnotes

1 [1-13] Christian life is to be inspired not only by the Old Testament men and women of faith (Hebrews 12:1) but above all by Jesus. As the architect of Christian faith, he had himself to endure the cross before receiving the glory of his triumph (Hebrews 12:2). Reflection on his sufferings should give his followers courage to continue the struggle, if necessary even to the shedding of blood (Hebrews 12:3-4). Christians should regard their own sufferings as the affectionate correction of the Lord, who loves them as a father loves his children.

2 [1] That clings to us: the meaning is uncertain, since the Greek word euperistatos, translated cling, occurs only here. The papyrus P46 and one minuscule read euperispastos, "easily distracting," which also makes good sense.

3 [15-17] Esau serves as an example in two ways: his profane attitude illustrates the danger of apostasy, and his inability to secure a blessing afterward illustrates the impossibility of repenting after falling away (see Hebrews 6:4-6).

4 [18-29] As a final appeal for adherence to Christian teaching, the two covenants, of Moses and of Christ, are compared. The Mosaic covenant, the author argues, is shown to have originated in fear of God and threats of divine punishment (Hebrews 12:18-21). The covenant in Christ gives us direct access to God (Hebrews 12:22), makes us members of the Christian community, God's children, a sanctified people (Hebrews 12:23), who have Jesus as mediator to speak for us (Hebrews 12:24). Not to heed the voice of the risen Christ is a graver sin than the rejection of the word of Moses (Hebrews 12:25-26). Though Christians fall away, God's kingdom in Christ will remain and his justice will punish those guilty of deserting it (Hebrews 12:28-29).

5 [18] This remarkably beautiful passage contrasts two great assemblies of people: that of the Israelites gathered at Mount Sinai for the sealing of the old covenant and the promulgation of the Mosaic law, and that of the followers of Jesus gathered at Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, the assembly of the new covenant. This latter scene, marked by the presence of countless angels and of Jesus with his redeeming blood, is reminiscent of the celestial liturgies of the Book of Revelation.

6 [23] The assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven: this expression may refer to the angels of Hebrews 12:22, or to the heroes of the Old Testament (see Hebrews 11), or to the entire assembly of the new covenant.

7 [24] Speaks more eloquently: the blood of Abel, the first human blood to be shed, is contrasted with that of Jesus. Abel's blood cried out from the earth for vengeance, but the blood of Jesus has opened the way for everyone, providing cleansing and access to God (Hebrews 10:19).
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  #5  
Old May 30, '11, 1:22 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

God used to hate everyone, A LOT. He killed almost the entire human race in the flood because he was angry. He even killed all the babies. He did save some animals and Noah. There are many other examples in the Old Testament where God is killing people or ordering killings, even of babies.

Then Jesus came, and now God no longer hates us or wants to kill us. Jesus reconciled us with God and now he loves everyone.

Other posters are going to come in and make the issue complicated and vague because they like the way it sounds better that way, but this is basically the long and short of it if you want a summation.
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  #6  
Old May 30, '11, 1:41 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
God used to hate everyone, A LOT. He killed almost the entire human race in the flood because he was angry. He even killed all the babies. He did save some animals and Noah. There are many other examples in the Old Testament where God is killing people or ordering killings, even of babies.

Then Jesus came, and now God no longer hates us or wants to kill us. Jesus reconciled us with God and now he loves everyone.

Other posters are going to come in and make the issue complicated and vague because they like the way it sounds better that way, but this is basically the long and short of it if you want a summation.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach this - because the Early Catholic Church didn't teach it either. I believe there were theologians who attempted to teach this and their ideas were determined to be heresy.

Due to this controversy, the language of the Apostle's Creed was updated and the additions are now in the Nicene Creed.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have always been united as three "Persons" in One Being.

In Genesis:

God the Son was present as the Word of God, the Holy Spirit was present in the mighty wind.

I'll try to find more specific information about the Oneness of the Trinity in the Catechism.

P.S. Jesus talked more about Hell and the consequences of unrepentant sin, than He ever talked about Heaven.

Last edited by Barbkw; May 30, '11 at 1:54 pm.
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  #7  
Old May 30, '11, 1:53 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbkw View Post
The Catholic Church doesn't teach this - because the Early Catholic Church didn't teach it either. I believe there were theologians who attempted to teach this and their ideas were determined to be heresy.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have always been united as three "Persons" in One Being.

In Genesis:

God the Son was present as the Word of God, the Holy Spirit was present in the mighty wind.

I'll try to find more specific information about the Oneness of the Trinity in the Catechism.
What doesn't the Church teach? That God killed everyone including babies in the flood and spared only Noah and some animals? Yes, the Church teaches that. It's in plain text right there in your Bible.


Why do you need to demonstrate to me that the Trinity is One? The Trinity is also Three.
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  #8  
Old May 30, '11, 1:57 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
What doesn't the Church teach? That God killed everyone including babies in the flood and spared only Noah and some animals? Yes, the Church teaches that. It's in plain text right there in your Bible.


Why do you need to demonstrate to me that the Trinity is One? The Trinity is also Three.
Just as God gave warning through Moses of the impending destruction, God gave warning through Noah.

You are insisting that God the Father hates and that the Trinity has not been eternally One.
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  #9  
Old May 30, '11, 2:00 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

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Originally Posted by Barbkw View Post
Just as God gave warning through Moses of the impending destruction, God gave warning through Noah.
So if I give you a warning that I'm going to punch you, that changes my motives? My motives are no longer hateful?

Quote:
You are insisting that God the Father hates
Used to. What would you call killing every man, woman and child with the exception of 1? Indifference?

Quote:
and that the Trinity has not been eternally One.
I don't understand what you are critiquing here. You seem to be upset that I'm insisting that there is a Threeness to the Trinity, when there most clearly is. You make it sound like I'm speaking heretically on this subject, but that is what the Church teaches just as much as Oneness. Isn't it?
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  #10  
Old May 30, '11, 2:05 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm#242

Catechism of the Catholic Church

II. THE REVELATION OF GOD AS TRINITY

III. THE HOLY TRINITY IN THE TEACHING OF THE FAITH

The formation of the Trinitarian dogma

IV. THE DIVINE WORKS AND THE TRINITARIAN MISSIONS

258 The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons.

For as the Trinity has only one and the same nature, so too does it have only one and the same operation:

"The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of creation but one principle."97


However, each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.

Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, "one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are".98

It is above all the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons.
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  #11  
Old May 30, '11, 2:06 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

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Originally Posted by Barbkw View Post

258 The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons.

For as the Trinity has only one and the same nature, so too does it have only one and the same operation:

"The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of creation but one principle."97

However, each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.

Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, "one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are".98

It is above all the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons.
Are you insisting that there is no threeness to the trinity? If so, I bolded it for you.
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Old May 30, '11, 2:15 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
Are you insisting that there is no threeness to the trinity? If so, I bolded it for you.
As quoted above:

Quote:
For as the Trinity has only one and the same nature, so too does it have only one and the same operation:

"The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of creation but one principle."97
By definition of the above Catholic doctrine, if you are a Catholic and you believe that God the Father "hates" then God the Son and God the Holy Spirit also "hate".

But, Catholic doctrine does not teach that God the Father "hates".
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  #13  
Old May 30, '11, 3:11 pm
VeritasLuxMea VeritasLuxMea is offline
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbkw View Post
As quoted above:



By definition of the above Catholic doctrine, if you are a Catholic and you believe that God the Father "hates" then God the Son and God the Holy Spirit also "hate".

But, Catholic doctrine does not teach that God the Father "hates".
Ah, I see. But Jesus' death did reconcile us with the Father, did it not? To say otherwise would put us in a different hole: that Jesus' death and resurrection meant nothing.
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Old May 31, '11, 3:53 am
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

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Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
God used to hate everyone, A LOT.
If he truly hated them he probably wouldn't have made them, He no doubt hated what they(sinners) did, but if He truly hated them He certainly wouldn't have sent His Son to die for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
He killed almost the entire human race in the flood because he was angry.
Yeah, He gave them Life and took it away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
He even killed all the babies. He did save some animals and Noah. There are many other examples in the Old Testament where God is killing people or ordering killings, even of babies.
Will God not have mercy on the least and most innocent of His Human creation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
Then Jesus came, and now God no longer hates us or wants to kill us. Jesus reconciled us with God and now he loves everyone.
That presupposes that God can change, witch supposes that For God there was a time before where He wasn't Loving, but since God exists outside of Time this is problematic. Besides if He truly didn't Love us, Why create and allow people to reject Him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea View Post
Other posters are going to come in and make the issue complicated and vague because they like the way it sounds better that way, but this is basically the long and short of it if you want a summation.
Perhaps, but as i said before, The idea that God would hate anything that He made, or Change somehow is at best problematic.
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  #15  
Old May 31, '11, 12:30 pm
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Default Re: God hates certain people?

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Originally Posted by antihippy79 View Post
I was reading Psalms and came across Psalm 5: "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity."

God hates people who do iniquity? I thought He loved sinners? I found about four of five other random quotes where God is said to hate a certain group of people. Is this true that God hates some people? This seems contrary to what I thought I knew.
These passages simply assert God's intrinsic aversion to sin. God IS love--His very nature, and so does not hate in the human sense. We must not bring God down to our level when interpretting Scripture. But we must be conscious of the sacred writers' usage.

This may be helpful; it deals with Divine anger:

Quote:
God does not have a body and so does not feel the physiological sensations we do with anger. Neither does he feel the mental discomfort associated with anger. He does intensely disapprove of sin and, when it is committed, will act. This action may take the form of allowing temporal calamity to befall those who engage in sin.

This allowing of temporal calamity on those who have sinned is sufficiently analogous to human anger for Scripture to apply the term to it. Thus when in the Old Testament people suffer on account of their sins, it is spoken of as the product of divine anger.

Alternately, God sometimes announced through the prophets that he was angry and would punish the people unless they repented. This also signifies God's disapproval of their sins together with the information on what God will do if they persist on their present course. (see http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211bt.asp)
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