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  #31  
Old Jun 3, '11, 1:01 pm
lcg101 lcg101 is offline
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Unhappy Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

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Originally Posted by laszlo View Post
If the new form Mass would sing Gregorian always, and would be prayed with full reverence, would you prefer the Latin or the English what you can hear and feel?
Latin. There's something about praying in the language of the Doctors of the Church.... also, in the few languages I've studied it becomes apparent that meanings are changed as you translate from one language to another. So even the most well-intentioned vernacular translation still loses some of the original intent in the Latin wording ..... I just love tradition, especially in the context of my beloved faith.

And while I mention these frequently, the entire experience of TLM is beyond the music, it's beyond the language. TLM is a statement of adherence to a way of life. This is no-bars-hold Catholic. It's Catholic to the extreme degree.... it's not going to be confused with a Protestant worship service and people won't be able to say "If it's not one religion, it's another" and include this radically different way of worship in that statement. It's being Catholic for keeps. And that's what attracts me to it. It's the real deal. Our faith has withstood countless enemies, from the time of Christ to now. It's nothing to be ashamed of; we have every reason to proclaim it from the rooftops, and now what we see most often is Catholicism attempting to blend in? To mix in with the mash of non-denominational jargon and allow Catholics to act in ways that are not in accordance with the tradition of their faith? It bothers me, particularly living in the part of the US known as 'The Bible Belt', that certain Catholics I know have taken to speaking of their Mass as 'service' and the Eucharist as 'communion'.

This is where I struggle.

I suppose in that regard I still struggle with the acceptance of the NO because I have witnessed what its 'watering down' (for lack of better term) affects, particularly after having gone to TLM. I just don't understand how the kumbayah style music is enhancing anyone's spirituality. Music should enhance the liturty, not detract. And at the NO masses I have been to (with few exception; read, one), that has not been the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rben20 View Post
When I discovered the Mass I honestly felt cheated. It was a well kept secret and completely unavailable where I'm from but ever since I attended my spirituality strengthened.
I felt the same way. It's good to know that from this point on we are charged with the task of helping others find the comfort and solace in what God has led us to!
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  #32  
Old Jun 3, '11, 1:57 pm
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ajpirc ajpirc is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcg101 View Post
Latin. There's something about praying in the language of the Doctors of the Church.... also, in the few languages I've studied it becomes apparent that meanings are changed as you translate from one language to another. So even the most well-intentioned vernacular translation still loses some of the original intent in the Latin wording ..... I just love tradition, especially in the context of my beloved faith.

And while I mention these frequently, the entire experience of TLM is beyond the music, it's beyond the language. TLM is a statement of adherence to a way of life. This is no-bars-hold Catholic. It's Catholic to the extreme degree.... it's not going to be confused with a Protestant worship service and people won't be able to say "If it's not one religion, it's another" and include this radically different way of worship in that statement. It's being Catholic for keeps. And that's what attracts me to it. It's the real deal. Our faith has withstood countless enemies, from the time of Christ to now. It's nothing to be ashamed of; we have every reason to proclaim it from the rooftops, and now what we see most often is Catholicism attempting to blend in? To mix in with the mash of non-denominational jargon and allow Catholics to act in ways that are not in accordance with the tradition of their faith? It bothers me, particularly living in the part of the US known as 'The Bible Belt', that certain Catholics I know have taken to speaking of their Mass as 'service' and the Eucharist as 'communion'.

This is where I struggle.

I suppose in that regard I still struggle with the acceptance of the NO because I have witnessed what its 'watering down' (for lack of better term) affects, particularly after having gone to TLM. I just don't understand how the kumbayah style music is enhancing anyone's spirituality. Music should enhance the liturty, not detract. And at the NO masses I have been to (with few exception; read, one), that has not been the case.



I felt the same way. It's good to know that from this point on we are charged with the task of helping others find the comfort and solace in what God has led us to!
I would have to agree only with what's bold. (It's ALL bold!!! )

But then you will get people that say, "It's not about the traditions, it's about the faith in Christ at Mass." <----- My liberal pastor will say this all day!!! People that say this are trying to destroy our Catholic Faith, the Mass, and our beautiful traditions.

I would just tell those people that without our traditions, our Catholic Faith becomes a bland Protestant faith. With our traditions, our Catholic Faith becomes the radiant, vivid, and enhanced Faith that the Church has kept for 2,000 years.

The Catholic Faith with tradition is like a TV with HD.
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"We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants." -- Archbishop Annibale Bugnini

(Now a Group of 38)
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  #33  
Old Jun 3, '11, 2:39 pm
Glennonite Glennonite is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Hello to the thread. I hope you all don't mind, but I'd like to turn the question around and ask for your help.

I am not a fan of the Latin Mass...but would like to learn to love it as I do the current vernacular Mass. I find that while watching the Daily Mass on EWTN, (which has gone pretty Latin these days) I get lost. I like praying along with both the congregational and priestly prayers...in English.

I started as an altarboy in 1970; according to all of my older cousins, I was very lucky not to have needed to learn all the prayers in Latin. Now who's laughing?

Here's the question: Can anyone direct me to a web-source to find the entire Latin Mass along with the English (preferably, right beneath the Latin)? I've been down many dead-ends in my searching on the web.

Thanks,

Glennonite
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  #34  
Old Jun 3, '11, 2:45 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Here's the question: Can anyone direct me to a web-source to find the entire Latin Mass along with the English (preferably, right beneath the Latin)? I've been down many dead-ends in my searching on the web.
Would this help?

http://rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html

Note that this is the Traditional Latin Mass or EF or Usus Antiquior. The OF can also be said completely or partly in Latin. I'm sure that there will be websites giving Latin-English of the OF when the new English is implemented.
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  #35  
Old Jun 3, '11, 2:53 pm
Glennonite Glennonite is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

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Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Would this help?

http://rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html

Note that this is the Traditional Latin Mass or EF or Usus Antiquior. The OF can also be said completely or partly in Latin.
Thanks, is this the format of our daily Mass today and tomorrow? I will bookmark this site in either case, but what I would like first, is a way to start speaking the Latin Mass today.

By the way a lot of people use: OF, EF, and TRO, or BLT...what are you guys talking about!?

Thanks,

Glennonite
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  #36  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:07 pm
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ajpirc ajpirc is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Thanks, is this the format of our daily Mass today and tomorrow? I will bookmark this site in either case, but what I would like first, is a way to start speaking the Latin Mass today.

By the way a lot of people use: OF, EF, and TRO, or BLT...what are you guys talking about!?

Thanks,

Glennonite
OF-Ordinary Form
EF-Extraordinary Form
TRO-no clue
BLT-Bacon Lettuce Tomato
__________________
"We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants." -- Archbishop Annibale Bugnini

(Now a Group of 38)
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  #37  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:21 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Thanks, is this the format of our daily Mass today and tomorrow? I will bookmark this site in either case, but what I would like first, is a way to start speaking the Latin Mass today.
Try this one:

http://www.latinliturgy.com/id18.htm

Note that the English will change after Nov of this year. The Latin doesn't change.
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  #38  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:33 pm
Will S Will S is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Hello to the thread. I hope you all don't mind, but I'd like to turn the question around and ask for your help.

I am not a fan of the Latin Mass...but would like to learn to love it as I do the current vernacular Mass. I find that while watching the Daily Mass on EWTN, (which has gone pretty Latin these days) I get lost. I like praying along with both the congregational and priestly prayers...in English.
Hi Glennonite, yeah it's true that the EWTN daily Mass uses a good bit of Latin these days, but it's still actually quite a bit different than the traditional Latin Mass. If you can spare a few hours, you can watch videos of whole traditional Masses online to see what they are like.

If you want to do this, here are some links you might appreciate. I would like to add, however, that watching a video is very different than being there. Also don't expect to be able to follow everything right away. It takes some time and, for adults, some study is useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eb0R-edS3Y
http://www.ewtn.com/liturgy/traditional/Archive.htm
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  #39  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:37 pm
Glennonite Glennonite is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Try this one:

http://www.latinliturgy.com/id18.htm

Note that the English will change after Nov of this year. The Latin doesn't change.
ProVobis:

YES! That's exactly what I needed in all possible forms of the Mass. Thanks for your time.

Glennoite
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  #40  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:47 pm
Glennonite Glennonite is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will S View Post
Hi Glennonite, yeah it's true that the EWTN daily Mass uses a good bit of Latin these days, but it's still actually quite a bit different than the traditional Latin Mass. If you can spare a few hours, you can watch videos of whole traditional Masses online to see what they are like.

If you want to do this, here are some links you might appreciate. I would like to add, however, that watching a video is very different than being there. Also don't expect to be able to follow everything right away. It takes some time and, for adults, some study is useful.

Thank you, Will

I will check these links.

Why do you (or anyone else who might be following this link) suppose the Pope and the Church are trending back toward Latin? There must be something other than asthetics, or being uniquely-Catholic, or being better-than the vernacular Mass.

I wonder if we will retain the option of English Masses in the future...

Thanks again,

Glennonite
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  #41  
Old Jun 3, '11, 3:55 pm
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ajpirc ajpirc is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Thank you, Will

I will check these links.

Why do you (or anyone else who might be following this link) suppose the Pope and the Church are trending back toward Latin? There must be something other than asthetics, or being uniquely-Catholic, or being better-than the vernacular Mass.

I wonder if we will retain the option of English Masses in the future...

Thanks again,

Glennonite
I think that Pope Benedict XVI, who has been very traditional himself, has seen how much the Faith of the Catholic faithful has severely dropped since Vatican II's reforms. That is why I think he is doing it.

I think that once people see the beauty of the Tridentine Mass, the Novus Ordo and the vernacular will be taken away. But, I'd say this'll happen in about 50 to 100 years.
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"We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants." -- Archbishop Annibale Bugnini

(Now a Group of 38)
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  #42  
Old Jun 3, '11, 4:00 pm
Will S Will S is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Thank you, Will

I will check these links.

Why do you (or anyone else who might be following this link) suppose the Pope and the Church are trending back toward Latin? There must be something other than asthetics, or being uniquely-Catholic, or being better-than the vernacular Mass.

I wonder if we will retain the option of English Masses in the future...
In the long run, I think we're more likely to have the traditional Mass in English than the modern Mass in Latin.

That is, I suspect the traditional Mass or something like it will be largely restored, but I don't think the vernacular will be abandoned.

The differences between the traditional Mass and the modern Mass are far greater than just language.
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  #43  
Old Jun 3, '11, 4:27 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennonite View Post
Why do you (or anyone else who might be following this link) suppose the Pope and the Church are trending back toward Latin? There must be something other than asthetics, or being uniquely-Catholic, or being better-than the vernacular Mass.
Pope John XXIII explained it well here, issued just a few months before he convened Vatican II.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23veterum.htm

That was met with fanfare back in 1962, by the way.
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  #44  
Old Jun 3, '11, 4:43 pm
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GunnerQuick GunnerQuick is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

Quote:
"In the long run, I think we're more likely to have the traditional Mass in English than the modern Mass in Latin.

That is, I suspect the traditional Mass or something like it will be largely restored, but I don't think the vernacular will be abandoned.

The differences between the traditional Mass and the modern Mass are far greater than just language."
I think that the traditional latin mass said in english would be a decent place to end up, a compramise perhaps? Just looking at the translations of the prayers from latin to english, the NO misses so much that could be used.
An example I can think of off the top of my head, is recieving communion, as we all know the priest says " The body of christ" and we say "amen" if you translate the latin to english in the TLM, when recieving the Eucharist the priest intones "May the body of our Lord Jesus Christ keep my soul unto life everlasting. Amen." I don't know about you but this is such an amazing difference that I think if said to the people in english would mean alot more to people spirtually. Personally I think that if a priest said this to me when I came up it would make the average pew sitter really think about what he/she recieving as opposed to " the body of christ".
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  #45  
Old Jun 3, '11, 4:46 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: What drew you to the Latin Mass?

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Originally Posted by ajpirc View Post
I think that once people see the beauty of the Tridentine Mass, the Novus Ordo and the vernacular will be taken away. But, I'd say this'll happen in about 50 to 100 years.
I don't have the list of all the vernaculars used in the Mass (probably several hundred of them) but I heard some have already been obsoleted. Polish and Spanish will probably remain but as we've already seen, English will have to be retranslated every so often to keep it in synch with the unchanging Latin. It's very expensive to keep retranslating and at some point the Church will have to decide whether it's worth the effort. Despite the popularity of the English Mass on CA, the percentage of English-speaking people who actually attend Catholic Mass isn't that high when compared to some other languages.
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