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  #1  
Old Jun 4, '11, 4:25 pm
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Paxvobis Paxvobis is offline
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Default What happened to Limbo?

Okay, so I was reading the Catechism and came across this:

Quote:
1261. As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
I thought everyone who was not baptized (of water, will, or blood) went to Hell because their inherited original sin had not been cleansed and that those below the age of reason went to a place in Hell called Limbo where they were not tormented as much as the other parts of Hell.

Would believing in Limbo now be heretical considering that the Church says that we can hope for their salvation? And how can Catechism 1261 be reconciled with the earlier teachings of the Church that one cannot go to heaven (or purgatory for that matter) without baptism. I'm confused.

And another question, the Catechism also says:

Quote:
817. Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
I understand that this would be a form of baptism (baptism of will), but my question is this: are those who do know the Gospel of Christ, but who have not been baptized by water or blood, yet seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it able to achieve the same baptism of will that those who don't know of Christs gospel?
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  #2  
Old Jun 4, '11, 4:33 pm
tonyrey tonyrey is online now
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

The Church points out that original sin should not be equated with individual culpability. Christ's love on the Cross is powerful enough to save anyone who does not reject Him.
To think otherwise is absurd.
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  #3  
Old Jun 4, '11, 4:55 pm
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Paxvobis Paxvobis is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Yes, original sin is not personal sin. I'm not asking about that.

What I'm asking is this: is Limbo now out of vogue? And how can the doctrine that baptism is necessary for salvation be reconciled with the doctrine that unbaptized babies can go to heaven?
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  #4  
Old Jun 4, '11, 4:56 pm
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraph 1257, especially the last line.
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  #5  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:00 pm
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxvobis View Post
Yes, original sin is not personal sin. I'm not asking about that.

What I'm asking is this: is Limbo now out of vogue? And how can the doctrine that baptism is necessary for salvation be reconciled with the doctrine that unbaptized babies can go to heaven?
Limbo was a happy speculation which was popular years ago. Yes. The Limbo theory is out of vogue. Please see post 4.
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  #6  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:01 pm
tonyrey tonyrey is online now
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxvobis View Post
Yes, original sin is not personal sin. I'm not asking about that.

What I'm asking is this: is Limbo now out of vogue? And how can the doctrine that baptism is necessary for salvation be reconciled with the doctrine that unbaptized babies can go to heaven?
Limbo has never been official Church doctrine.
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  #7  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:21 pm
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lauraabarlow lauraabarlow is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Okay-here is my story. I was 4-yrs-old when my mom miscarried a baby-a little girl. She never gotten baptized yet I believe with all my being that she is with Jesus, along with all the other little babies and children who through no fault of their own died. How can Jesus, who has a special place in His heart for children send them to hell? Even limbo-although they have the original sin, they are innocent being that they never had the chance to make a choice. What about the aborted babies? They are surely with Jesus-not the devil. Please-remember what Jesus said about the little children coming to Him-for the kingdom of God belong to them. Jesus saying that pretty much confirms the fact of the children having a special place in heaven based on what Jesus said about them. I know (if I make it to heaven) that I will see my baby sister someday. I am a devout catholic yet having a difficult time with this limbo thing-there is no way that children out of their innocence will end up in hell-no way!
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  #8  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:25 pm
tonyrey tonyrey is online now
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraabarlow View Post
Okay-here is my story. I was 4-yrs-old when my mom miscarried a baby-a little girl. She never gotten baptized yet I believe with all my being that she is with Jesus, along with all the other little babies and children who through no fault of their own died. How can Jesus, who has a special place in His heart for children send them to hell? Even limbo-although they have the original sin, they are innocent being that they never had the chance to make a choice. What about the aborted babies? They are surely with Jesus-not the devil. Please-remember what Jesus said about the little children coming to Him-for the kingdom of God belong to them. Jesus saying that pretty much confirms the fact of the children having a special place in heaven based on what Jesus said about them. I know (if I make it to heaven) that I will see my baby sister someday. I am a devout catholic yet having a difficult time with this limbo thing-there is no way that children out of their innocence will end up in hell-no way!
There is no need to have a difficult time! My wife and I had a stillborn baby daughter and the peaceful expression on her face seemed a foretaste of heaven. We called her Maria...
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  #9  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:52 pm
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CB Catholic CB Catholic is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraabarlow View Post
Okay-here is my story. I was 4-yrs-old when my mom miscarried a baby-a little girl. She never gotten baptized yet I believe with all my being that she is with Jesus, along with all the other little babies and children who through no fault of their own died. How can Jesus, who has a special place in His heart for children send them to hell? Even limbo-although they have the original sin, they are innocent being that they never had the chance to make a choice. What about the aborted babies? They are surely with Jesus-not the devil. Please-remember what Jesus said about the little children coming to Him-for the kingdom of God belong to them. Jesus saying that pretty much confirms the fact of the children having a special place in heaven based on what Jesus said about them. I know (if I make it to heaven) that I will see my baby sister someday. I am a devout catholic yet having a difficult time with this limbo thing-there is no way that children out of their innocence will end up in hell-no way!
As others have stated, Limbo was never Church doctrine, and even when it was a popular concept, it never was taught as being Hell. Instead it was said to be a place of natural happiness, not punishment.
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  #10  
Old Jun 4, '11, 5:54 pm
tonyrey tonyrey is online now
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

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Originally Posted by CB Catholic View Post
As others have stated, Limbo was never Church doctrine, and even when it was a popular concept, it never was taught as being Hell. Instead it was said to be a place of natural happiness, not punishment.
Even so it seems unjust that infants should be separated from God and their parents forever through no one's fault.
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  #11  
Old Jun 4, '11, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey View Post
The Church points out that original sin should not be equated with individual culpability. Christ's love on the Cross is powerful enough to save anyone who does not reject Him.
To think otherwise is absurd.
So then what would be the reason for the Church, her sacraments, good works, and the rest of the requirements for salvation if all I have to do is accept Christ's love?
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  #12  
Old Jun 4, '11, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

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Originally Posted by tonyrey View Post
Even so it seems unjust that infants should be separated from God and their parents forever through no one's fault.
Adam and Eve's?
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  #13  
Old Jun 4, '11, 6:11 pm
Will S Will S is offline
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey View Post
Even so it seems unjust that infants should be separated from God and their parents forever through no one's fault.
It is not unjust because every person is conceived in original sin and thus has no right to Heaven. When a person has no right to Heaven, it is entirely just for them to not go to Heaven. It is sanctifying grace, which we received through baptism, that gives us the right to go to Heaven.

It is a de fide teaching of the Church that all those who die in original sin along (i.e. no actual sin) descend immediately to hell. It is also a de fide teaching of the Church that, the only divinely revealed way to remove original sin is Baptism, or the desire therefore.

Therefore, it is a de fide teaching of the Church that, to the extent of our knowledge stemming from divine revelation, there is no way for deceased unbaptized infants to attain the Beatific Vision (i.e. Heaven). This is the constant teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

Now here's the big "BUT" --

BUT, the fact that divine revelation has not revealed to us any way that unbaptized infants can be saved does not mean that God will not act to save these unbaptized souls anyway. Therefore it is permissible to hope that He does so. However, to claim to be certain that unbaptized infants go to Heaven is an error.

St. Augustine and other early Fathers believed that unbaptized infants suffered eternal torments in Hell. St. Thomas Aquinas and other medieval scholastics believed that unbaptized infants enjoyed a state of natural happiness, lacking only the Beatific Vision, which they called "Limbo of the Infants".

Personally, I do not think that unbaptized infants attain Heaven. The historical opinion of the Church speaks against it.
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  #14  
Old Jun 4, '11, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will S View Post
St. Thomas Aquinas and other medieval scholastics believed that unbaptized infants enjoyed a state of natural happiness, lacking only the Beatific Vision, which they called "Limbo of the Infants".
So, what they believed was that they didn't go to Limbo, because Christ had gotten rid of it. They just believed in something that resembled it.

Is this what you're saying?
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  #15  
Old Jun 4, '11, 6:20 pm
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Default Re: What happened to Limbo?

If Limbo exists it is not part of hell. If it exists then it is a happy place. It is fine to believe in it. But you do not have too.
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