Priests with Wedding Rings

MacMcCarver · #1 Jun 10, '11, 9:54 pm

I've been curious lately about the opinion of fellow Catholics about the proposed reversal of the Church's stance on priestly celibacy in the wake of the Traditional Anglican Communions and the terrible sex abuse scandal. What are your thoughts? Should married men be considered for candidacy for ordination?

Domnall · #2 Jun 10, '11, 9:59 pm

I'm totally torn on the issue. On one hand, I think that being a husband and a father would give men more experience to be better pastors and mentors.

On the other hand, there are several problems. The Church doesn't nearly have enough money to support priests with spouses and children. Also, we lose some of our identity. We Catholics always talk about Catholic Identity going away. Well, part of that are celibate priests. So, for that reason we should keep things the way they are.

I'd like to note that Anglican priests coming in as well as Eastern Catholic priests should be allowed to have spouses due to their tradition.

Bruised Reed · #3 Jun 10, '11, 10:12 pm

If more married men were applying to the diaconate I might think the Church should consider this. But they're not.

Alexander Smith · #4 Jun 10, '11, 10:20 pm

A celibate priesthood has nothing repeat *nothing* to do with the sex abuse scandals. The natural desire for sex does NOT normally lead men to commit grave sins/crimes against children.

**GEddie** · #5 Jun 10, '11, 11:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Smith

A celibate priesthood has nothing repeat *nothing* to do with the sex abuse scandals. The natural desire for sex does NOT normally lead men to commit grave sins/crimes against children.

Bravo!

I'd also add that abolishing celibacy would be perceived by the world as a surrender to the "sexual revolution." The media would interpret the end of celibacy as an admission that it was abnormal and/or a reason for the scandals. Look what happened with His Holiness' statements on HIV and condoms.

To gain a temporary uptick in vocations (which would fade once everybody realizes that priesthood, even with a wife and family, is a totally sacrificial life), the Church would lose its most powerful witness: men who are so committed to the Kingdom of Heaven that they even give up the joy of a spousal love to serve it.

Let's hope it never happens.

God bless and ICXC NIKA.

Waylander · #6 Jun 10, '11, 11:38 pm

Please read the following. There is many articles regarding this subject regarding a recent study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice an independent source hired by the Catholic Church.

Study: Homosexuality, celibacy didn't cause abuse
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110518/...h_abuse_report

Please note that even though they were hired by the Catholic Church to do the study, it has been reported to have been done without church influance. In the past John Jay College have been perceived as very critical of the church.

I desided to even precent this article from the Rachel Zoll from the Associated Press that I find to read as a bit harsh of the study in my opinion.

PbloPicasso · #7 Jun 11, '11, 12:09 am

Studies aside. Let me throw in my 2cents.

I'm one of the victims of such scandals. I was a seminarian, still a teenager. It broke my heart. However, there was an atmosphere in the 70's and early 80's that haunted the seminaries. Gay was vogue and not considered an impediment to becoming a priest. This was a very imprudent move on the part of diocese in America back then. I suspect it was widespread among western countries plagued by the remnants of the sexual revolution combined with mystic new age and misguided practices involving eastern religion.

A celibate priesthood will never disappear or be mandated. It goes back just as far as Christ himself. Further, a married priesthood would not be the answer to a sex scandal anyhow. It really is about formation, not marriage. Another thing in defense of married priests is that protestants afford paying ministers enough to support their families. I see no problem with increasing their salaries in such cases. However, the structure of the Church is much different than a protestant church. But if the Episcopalians, Lutherans, Prebyterians, Methodists, and other liturgical faiths can do it then affording to pay priests shouldn't even be discussed. The real issue is maintaining the dignity of existing priests and their chosen vocation. Married priests are torn towards their wife and children. It should be that way.

Personally, I believe the Lord is calling more men who happen to be married, to the priesthood, but the Church is stopping short of allowing it. It is up to the Church authority though. And therefore we should pray about that choice being God's will and not ours.

Waylander · #8 Jun 11, '11, 1:06 am

@PbloPicasso

I hope that posting that article was not offensive to you or brings any more pain in your life. If so, I apologies and ask for your forgiveness if it has.

In response to your comments above regarding why the priest should marry. Below is the scripture in the bible on where we as Catholics believe that a priest should be celibate. Of course none of it explains the mindset of evil men that would do such of thing to any child/young adult.

1 Corinthians 7:31-35

I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.
But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,
and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord without distraction.

Mathew 19:12

Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

IMO these men of evil desires would have done these terrible acts if they were priest or married. They are incapable of marriage for the sake of sin as well and were attracted to place themselves in a position of power over people.

I wish you the very best and again ask you to forgive me if my actions caused you any more pain.

roads152 · #9 Jun 11, '11, 2:08 am

The Church's law on Priestly Celibacy, to me is a masterpiece for many reasons among which is practicality. It seems to me that a man who is both ordained and married is being placed in an extremely problematic situation.
Consider that a married person ought to be faithful and honest to the spouse and if faithfulness and honesty entails keeping no secret, how will a married priest handle the Sacramental Seal in the Sacrament of reconciliation?
Does it not seem awkward that the very person teaching married couples and married-couples-to-be to avoid keeping secrets from their respective spouses will be the first one doing otherwise?
The real problem is abuse. Let us ask whether no married man ever abused a woman or a child. If we found none, then, we can consider suggesting something about Priestly Celibacy. We may be heard by the hierarchy.

Sheadad · #10 Jun 11, '11, 3:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by roads152

The Church's law on Priestly Celibacy, to me is a masterpiece for many reasons among which is practicality. It seems to me that a man who is both ordained and married is being placed in an extremely problematic situation.
Consider that a married person ought to be faithful and honest to the spouse and if faithfulness and honesty entails keeping no secret, how will a married priest handle the Sacramental Seal in the Sacrament of reconciliation?
Does it not seem awkward that the very person teaching married couples and married-couples-to-be to avoid keeping secrets from their respective spouses will be the first one doing otherwise?
The real problem is abuse. Let us ask whether no married man ever abused a woman or a child. If we found none, then, we can consider suggesting something about Priestly Celibacy. We may be heard by the hierarchy.

The priest's faithfulness to the sacramental seal of confession is separate from the bond that he shares with a spouse. The seal is first and foremost a respect for the reconciliation of man to God, therefore it's not something you mess with. That respect calls for secrecy and by it's critical nature is something that just remains separated from a married priest's life. He will be obligated to keep personal that which is between Man and God and that which is personal between he and his wife.

Frankly I'm now seeing the benefit of both ways being beneficial to the Church in it's future. We clearly have married preist's allowed in the Church through conversions and more so lately it seems. I understand the lifelong devotion to the Lord through celibacy is the better way and maybe more of a higher calling, however the married priest also can bring a seriously devoted life to fulfill his calling also.

PerfectTiming · #11 Jun 11, '11, 3:57 am

"An unmarried man can devote himself to the Lord's affairs, all he need worry about is pleasing the Lord; but a married man has to bother about the world's affairs and devote himself to pleasing his wife: he is torn two ways." 1 Corinthians 7:32-33

I am 100% on the side that priests should not be married.

As someone already said, celibacy has nothing to do with the sex abuse cases. Parents, teachers, other relatives and others have all been convicted of sexual abuse. None of these populations are celibate. It's like saying 'some parents abuse their children, therefore parenthood causes abuse'. It's picking and choosing situational factors and not paying attention to the true nature of the cases.

**puzzleannie** · #12 Jun 11, '11, 4:51 am

some celibate priests already wear wedding rings as a commitment symbol of their marriage to the Church, their conformity to Christ. If celibacy were a factor in the sex scandals there would be absolutely no incidence of such abuse among married clergy of other denominations. Since the incidence of abuse is even higher in those groups, obviously celibacy is not a factor.

Keep the discussion to its merits, is a celibate priesthood as the norm good and necessary for the Church. My feeling is that this witness is needed more now than at any time in history, when chastity is under such attack. The celibate priest is a model of Christ and in keeping his vow of fidelity to the Church his bride sets the example for those in married life to live faithfully.

as a practical matter, Catholics should not even think about married priests as the norm until they are willing to tithe, as most non-Catholic faiths do, in order to support the clergy and their families.

Chatter163 · #13 Jun 11, '11, 6:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacMcCarver

I've been curious lately about the opinion of fellow Catholics about the proposed reversal of the Church's stance on priestly celibacy in the wake of the Traditional Anglican Communions and the terrible sex abuse scandal. What are your thoughts? Should married men be considered for candidacy for ordination?

The "proposed reversal"? No such creatue.

Corki · #14 Jun 11, '11, 8:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacMcCarver

I've been curious lately about the opinion of fellow Catholics about the proposed reversal of the Church's stance on priestly celibacy in the wake of the Traditional Anglican Communions and the terrible sex abuse scandal. What are your thoughts? Should married men be considered for candidacy for ordination?

The celibacy discipline has nothig to do with the sex abuse scandals.

The Church already considers married men, in limited circumstances, for ordination. I would support a slow expansion of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruised Reed

If more married men were applying to the diaconate I might think the Church should consider this. But they're not.

Not sure what you mean by this. Virtually all the men applying for the diaconate are married - at least in my diocese. And the number seems to increase every year of total diaconate candidates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by puzzleannie

Keep the discussion to its merits, is a celibate priesthood as the norm good and necessary for the Church. My feeling is that this witness is needed more now than at any time in history, when chastity is under such attack. The celibate priest is a model of Christ and in keeping his vow of fidelity to the Church his bride sets the example for those in married life to live faithfully.

Quote:

as a practical matter, Catholics should not even think about married priests as the norm until they are willing to tithe, as most non-Catholic faiths do, in order to support the clergy and their families

That's a great point. There are other practical concerns. For example, the whole system of seminary training would have to be revised. The valuable practice of moving priests to new parishes on a regular basis would be problematic to many families. There needs to be a careful study of the role of the priest's wife both during and after seminary. Would the Church want to open up formation for the priesthood to married permanent deacons? What would the responsibility be to a man who is married and has children if he does not eventually get ordained? Although we would hope it would never happen what would the response and handling be to a priest who went through a separation?

I don't think the Church is anywhere near any large scale changes in this regard.

I am also not convinced that allowing married men to discern the priesthood would have any affect on the shortage of priests either. If the Church does this, it must be because it is good for the Church not as a reactionary move against outside forces.

ConstantineTG · #15 Jun 11, '11, 8:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacMcCarver

I've been curious lately about the opinion of fellow Catholics about the proposed reversal of the Church's stance on priestly celibacy in the wake of the Traditional Anglican Communions and the terrible sex abuse scandal. What are your thoughts? Should married men be considered for candidacy for ordination?

Why not? Being Ukrainian Catholic, our priest is married and has a child. I think having married priests would correct a lot of the false impressions people have about celibacy, both for and against it.