How to speak to DH about good stewardship (home price issue)

TigerKitty · #1 Jun 16, '11, 9:04 pm

Need some advice on how to GENTLY encourage DH to pay a fair price for a home.

Pardon my bluntness, but I'm a hair away from calling him downright stingy!

Here's the situation:
We both work, combined income is ~130K/yr
We both have 100K in savings, not counting retirement
We were approved - on his salary alone - for a purchase price of 475K
His mom just gave him a new car last year, so no change out of his pocket.

He did not want to spend more than 200K on a house. (please note 475 approval price above!) And it's urgent that we get out of this rental, so we can arrange child care for our daughter when I return to work in the fall - and also because I've developed some heart issues which are exacerbated by stress. Hearing the neighbors through the walls and fighting for a parking spot is not helping! Our little girl also deserves a quiet, safe place, and a yard she can play in. (And a mom who doesn't drop dead of a heart attack with no warning in her mid-40s like my mom did. And I'm almost 40 right now.)

Anyhow.......

We *almost* bought a house for 225K last week, but deal fell through after inspection.
His inital bid on this place was 190, and, of course, that offended the seller, as list was 235. It's a buyer's market right now, but come on! Negotiations were difficult....

Now we found another house for 180, initally was at 200. The taxes are 2000/year LESS than the house he was going to pay 225 for. He wants to put in an opening bid at 165, and the house is clearly worth more than the 180 list price. He is adamant that he will not pay more than 175 for this house, and he was going to spend 225 last week! Realtor is encouraging him to start at 170, though.

I don't understand what is wrong with him. Even if I tell him I'll put the extra 5K out of my own money, he likely won't budge.

How can I encourage him - or gently admonish him - to be a good steward for our family?

God has blessed both of us with intellect to win educational scholarships (no student loans ever), good educations, good jobs, and currently have ZERO outstanding debts. Vehicles are paid for, we pay off cards every month. We are SO very blessed to be in such a position. I'm afraid that if he doesn't "wise up" and use these resources to get a decent place to live for our family (and considering my heart/stress issues), something will happen to teach us a lesson - like one or both of us will lose our jobs.

Anyway, advice appreciated!

TigerKitty · #2 Jun 16, '11, 9:15 pm

One more thing to add.......

I know that right now the economy is bad, and there are so many people out of work, and so many losing their homes. I really do feel for the people who are in these situations right now, and I cannot even imagine the hardships they bear. I'm sorry if asking for advice about this "predicament" of having money to spend, but being stingy about it, makes them feel bad.

So difficult to express this in words.......but I feel so bad for the husbands out there who are frustrated, angry, defeated that they are out of work, and would give everything to their families, if only they had the money to spend. I love him, yes, but I am frustrated and disappointed at his reluctance to share his money for the good of his family - and he won't even let me spend the money out of my own paycheck for a decent home, either. I'm not sure if it's selfishness, fear, need to feel in control, or what. I just hope and pray that all will go well, and we will have a quiet place to live very soon.

Lady Marchmain · #3 Jun 16, '11, 10:59 pm

From what I can surmise about the houses you've been looking at, the price ranges (which overall are all in the same ballpark), the advice of your realtor and the other offers and ideas of DH that are a bit Scrooge-like, I would guess this is an emotional issue that he is not in touch with.

The issue is probably the big fear of going from a renter to an owner, having a mortgage, taxes, signing on that dotted line. I'm not sure if it's your first home purchase, if so, I remember mine was terrifying, and I almost backed out, even though rationally I knew I was getting an excellent deal. He is proposing offers that almost have to fail, because he's afraid to succeed.

If you tell him that, he may be offended. It sounds like he's not manning up to the situation or he's incompetent...but no, that's not what I'm saying. Buying a house is a killer decision, because he is the Pater Familias, he may feel the burden more than you of making an error.

He wants to screw (pardon me, we are using business language here) whoever might be the seller so he can say, "I did it, I got the best deal for my family, I didn't waste a dime of our money."

You might see how the realtor feels about this, ask the realtor if he has seen other clients behaving as DH is, having a good deal and blowing it over $20 or 30K, which is nothing when you're talking a house. Can the realtor take him aside, man-to-man style, and just have a relaxed chat about "what's going on? Are you OK?"

DH has some issue, it's not the money as clearly you can afford these home ranges you're choosing. It might be what I say above, or something else.

Be careful, though, he is apparently on edge about this and if you two start arguing it might make him feel more insecure. Let him know you're on his side, you want to make a wise decision together for the family, you will support him, but also please would he consider being more flexible so you can all move forward.

MtnDwellar · #4 Jun 17, '11, 2:29 am

Buying a new house is always on the top ten lists of stressful events. It seems like your husband is trying to be a good steward of family resources. The value of a home is subjective. A house is only worth as much as a buyer is will to pay for it. The real estate agent is representing the seller. Of course, the agent will encourage higher offers.

Congratulations on being able to buy a house. Ask St. Joseph and your guardian angel to help during the process.

convert999 · #5 Jun 17, '11, 7:10 am

I have had similar issue with my husband; in fact my "pet name" for him is Ebeneezer. Mind you, we're both cheap, but he puts me to shame. At one time I drove an eighteen year old Toyota with 186,000 miles for two years because he couldn't find a "good deal." ( Finally the Lord intervened and it was totaled -- of course it didn't take much

) I agree with Lady Marchmain that the desire to make a good deal for his family is probably a big factor. Men seem to have a horror of "getting ripped off."

After his offers are refused a few times, he will probably get the message on his own. That way you don't have to be the "bad guy." And you will get a house eventually.

As for the stress issue, consider this a warm-up for for your first major home remodeling project. Now that's where marriages are tested!

mary bobo · #6 Jun 17, '11, 8:21 am

You could always get a buyers agent to work with. That way they have your interests at heart and not the sellers. And they may be more successful in telling your husband that his low offers are going to get him nowhere.

noclevername · #7 Jun 17, '11, 1:32 pm

I side with your husband on this issue. My husband and I are in the same boat you are. We have a tad higher income level than you. We have enough money in the bank to live on if we both lost our jobs, we have retirement, etc. We live in a $200K house. We could afford much more but owning a house is so much more than just paying a mortgage. You will have taxes, etc. The utility bills will be higher than a rental. If something breaks, YOU have to fork out the money to get it fixed. Last summer we spent almost $10K to replace two AC units. When you move in, you are going to want to decorate and you will probably need furniture. If you are moving from an apt to a house, you will have to purchase lawn equipment. If you live in a neighborhood with an HOA, you will have those dues on top of your mortgage. I could go on and on. What I suspect your husband is doing is seeing the bigger picture here. He knows all of the expenses that go with owning a house. He is making sure all of you will be taken care of financially if he were to lose his job or something were to happen to him. Please listen to your husband and see if you can compromise a little more to his home price level.

TigerKitty · #8 Jun 17, '11, 3:09 pm

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, and a few chuckles!

To fill in some gaps in the story, we have a buyers agent. I agree on the lower home price range (around 200), even though we could afford much more (up to 475). I just don't want to lose (or have "awkward" negotiations) because of another super-low bid. We really are under a time-crunch now.

We rent a townhouse now, so pay utilities which are "house size". The only new bills we'll have are water and sewer. Plus, the house we're considering is gas heat, and so we won't have to pay for heating oil. Our rental is not insulated (too old), and so our heating bill was insane.

I owned previously, before we were married, and so have all the "home stuff" needed. (lawn mower, hose, clippers, tools, etc.) In my old house, I installed two real hardwood floors (not pergo), retiled a bathroom, installed electric heaters, incl. new circuit in the box, spackled, painted, papered, you name it. I always get a service contract on the furnace, so nothing to worry about there. Thankfully my dad taught me ALOT growing up and I can always call him if I get stuck. So minor (and even some major) items I can handle without paying for someone to come in.

Anyway - I do hope that things work out for this current, already ridiculously reduced, house.

**1ke** · #9 Jun 17, '11, 7:38 pm

Let your husband handle it.

He's doing just fine.

Corki · #10 Jun 17, '11, 7:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtnDwellar

Buying a new house is always on the top ten lists of stressful events. It seems like your husband is trying to be a good steward of family resources. The value of a home is subjective. A house is only worth as much as a buyer is will to pay for it. The real estate agent is representing the seller. Of course, the agent will encourage higher offers.

Congratulations on being able to buy a house. Ask St. Joseph and your guardian angel to help during the process.

The bold is important. Even if you have your own agent, he/she is ultimately representing the seller. A good agent will work with the seller to "prep" him about a possible low-ball offer to avoid any offense. Everyone has their own style of bartering.

**puzzleannie** · #11 Jun 18, '11, 2:12 pm

ask your realtor to pull comparables (the computer printouts with addresses, pictures and details) of houses in the area where you are looking, that meet your requirements as to size, price etc. These should be comps that are for sale like the ones you have seen, as well as recent sales within the last 6 months or year.

then sit down and go over them together so you get a reality check--make it like both of you are getting educated together, not like you are beating him with a stick.

narrow it down to 5 or 6 and just look at them and compare up close and personal so you know what 225K brings, for instance.

chances are his wish list will grow the more houses you see, and that price will creep upwards.

make sure you are looking at the true cost of ownership, not just the sales price
closing costs
interest
monthly payment
mortgage insurance
house insurance
HOA fees
TAXES biggie
assessments
utility costs--huge
deferred maintenance you will have to do--landscaping, roof, painting, repairs etc.
appliances
upgrading kitchens, baths, patios etc.
commuting costs

SamH · #12 Jun 20, '11, 11:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ke

Let your husband handle it.

He's doing just fine.

Agreed.

I remember the very first house we put an offer on back in 1996. The owners turned us down flat and refused to even make a counter offer (we offered about 3/4s asking price). Three months later the realtor called us back and asked if our offer was still good. I told him that it wasn't. After surveying the market for three months I had concluded my original offer was too high.

So the first house priced at $225K wasn't worth it - was it worth $190K after the inspection? It seems your husband was right and may not have known it.

Asking price means nothing - its what the house is actually worth. Even using comparables that are more than a year old aren't accurate. Once you go above 200K the waiting time on homes is astounding (over 8 months in many places). There are some real bargains to be had and selling to a preapproved buyer that will clear the loan process with no problem is worth 2 or 3 percent in price too.

Current asking price is many times dictated by what the owner thinks they HAVE TO HAVE (committed to next purchase, owned on current home etc...), instead of what the market dictates. And just because you can afford to pay more doesn't mean that you should pay more for a house. In many areas pricing is closer to what it was in 2000-2002 than 2008-2009.

How do you know the house is "clearly" worth more than the $180K asking price? If that was so it would have sold the first day it was on the market. He's offering them over 90% of asking price - that's a good starting point in this market.

SamH · #13 Jun 20, '11, 11:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corki

The bold is important. Even if you have your own agent, he/she is ultimately representing the seller. A good agent will work with the seller to "prep" him about a possible low-ball offer to avoid any offense. Everyone has their own style of bartering.

I watch the show Property Virgins and the realtor Sandra Rinomato drives me nuts. Nearly every home that her prospective buyers show an interest in has suddenly and magically had another buyer making an offer on so they need to make their own offer as high as possible. These are first time buyers and they don't understand how easy it is to be hosed on a home (used car salesmen are pikers compared to many realtors). Even if Sandra isn't in on it she should recognize that the listing agents are. Many of these shows do not represent the market as it exists today.

midori_ · #14 Jun 20, '11, 2:14 pm

I hate talking about money.

If a car is being sold for $20K, if I'm not willing to pay $20K for the car, I don't ask about it. DH, on the other hand, is more than happy to spend a day haggling. Same thing for houses. If the seller is trying to sell a house for $100K, and I don't think it's worth it, I'm hesitant to offend the seller by asking for something more reasonable. DH, on the other hand, is more than happy to put in a lowball bid and see if the seller is motivated enough to find some middle ground where both people are happy.

I'm much more flexible in my perception of "house worth" these days, even though I still leave the negotiations to DH.

We thought about settling in the DFW area, where a particular house might sell for $150-200K, and instead moved to a middle-of-nowhere rural town, where the same sized house, same number of beds and baths, might go for a fourth of that. Nowadays, I like to watch HGTV househunting shows for fun, and stare gapemouthed at people who pay half a million for the same square footage that you can pick up for under $10K here... of course, lots more people want to live in Chicago or NY than here, but heh.

If you can find a motivated seller, you can get even greater deals. I know of one house that's sat empty for five years, because the out-of-town children are trying to sell Mom's old house for $45K in a $20K neighborhood. If it was DFW, it would get snapped up in a heartbeat... but that's nearly two year's of average household income for this area, and so it's sat. I know of another house that's been empty for 10 years, has smoke damage from a meth cooking accident, and is across the street from sex offenders. The sellers came down from $45K to $25K and are holding firm. Guess what house is going to stay on the market for 10 more years?

Patience is important. It doesn't sound like you have anything that's really pressuring you into a move right now, so time is on your side. How much is another winter's worth of heating bills, versus overpaying for a house that needs to be heated, too?

This is a buyer's market as well, so that's another thing in your favor. Once school's in session, fewer people want to move, so that seriously thins out the competition-- another plus in your favor for not committing to a less-than-good deal. Find someone who needs to get out from under their house, pronto, and is open to accepting a bit less than they'd planned on in exchange for the freedom that comes from selling. You both win, right?

You guys sound like you're doing great together. Good luck!

noclevername · #15 Jun 21, '11, 7:10 am

Midori, I am with you 100%. I talk about money with my husband (because it's healthy for a marriage) but I HATE haggling about anything. I don't want to haggle with a car, a house, etc. I just don't want to do it but I know it's the way things work. So I am very thankful that I have a husband like yours who will haggle. If he didn't do it, we would be hosed on every significant purchase we made. I am thankful I have a husband like him.