Does your parish sing the ENTIRE recessional (closing) hymn? - Page 8

willwhite1951 · #**106** Jun 24, '11, 9:49 am

This seems to be a problem for some...Singing and dancing and playing horns,trumpets,tamborines,timbrels ect... came from King David,probably before him,celebrating of the LORD AS David paraded in the streets before the Taberknackle of God. It is a large part of the Feast and Sacrifice...If one does not seek to give the Glory to God why do you go to mass? During the week only 2 verses usually are sung which i believe is up to the one celebrating the Mass,maybe the music Minister but then when no music is offered it depends, i still am trying to offer the alleleuia twice at the close of the mass after the final blessing that should be done but thats another story,keep singing and others will join...

benedictgal · #**107** Jun 26, '11, 7:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by willwhite1951

This seems to be a problem for some...Singing and dancing and playing horns,trumpets,tamborines,timbrels ect... came from King David,probably before him,celebrating of the LORD AS David paraded in the streets before the Taberknackle of God. It is a large part of the Feast and Sacrifice...If one does not seek to give the Glory to God why do you go to mass? During the week only 2 verses usually are sung which i believe is up to the one celebrating the Mass,maybe the music Minister but then when no music is offered it depends, i still am trying to offer the alleleuia twice at the close of the mass after the final blessing that should be done but thats another story,keep singing and others will join...

Actually, what David did was outside of the bounds of Ancient Israel's cultic sacrificial worship. It was para-liturgical, so to speak, because God had already established norms for how He was to be worshipped.

i was called to cantor on the spot for this afternoon's Mass. I selected, "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" as the recessional. As the celebrant had already reached the vestibule, there was no need to sing another verse. Shortly thereafter, he thanked me for concluding the hymn at that point.

elgar · #**108** Jun 27, '11, 11:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by benedictgal

The only time that I would envision using all seven verses would be for a Mass where the bishop is the celebrant and you have lots of concelebrants and deacons (installation Mass, ordination Mass, or some other diocesan liturgy). You need that many verses to cover everyone.

It all depends. Protestants approach the suitability and singing of hymns entirely different. I was taught in college first and foremost look very carefully at the text of the hymn and think of it as poetry or a narration of a story. Next, make sure the tune is a good marriage to the text. If not, find another tune that is compatible to the meter.

Though the goal is sing ALL the verses, there are times when hymns can be split in two--this is indicated by a horizontal line in our hymnals. This was the case on Trinity Sunday when we sang the first 3 verses of "All Creatures of Our God and King" since the last 4 verses addressed a different reading.

I normally don't think of hymns are travelling music for the priest and clergy, but there are festive occasions where this is the case and should be prepared to improvise if you run out of verses.

benedictgal · #**109** Jun 27, '11, 12:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgar

It all depends. Protestants approach the suitability and singing of hymns entirely different. I was taught in college first and foremost look very carefully at the text of the hymn and think of it as poetry or a narration of a story. Next, make sure the tune is a good marriage to the text. If not, find another tune that is compatible to the meter.

Though the goal is sing ALL the verses, there are times when hymns can be split in two--this is indicated by a horizontal line in our hymnals. This was the case on Trinity Sunday when we sang the first 3 verses of "All Creatures of Our God and King" since the last 4 verses addressed a different reading.

I normally don't think of hymns are travelling music for the priest and clergy, but there are festive occasions where this is the case and should be prepared to improvise if you run out of verses.

However, as I noted in one of my earlier replies, Protestants only have the Word; the Church has both the Word and the Sacrifice. When all you have is the Word, then, the music becomes of greater importance. In our case, the music is at the service of the liturgy, not the other way around.

elgar · #**110** Jun 27, '11, 1:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benedictgal

However, as I noted in one of my earlier replies, Protestants only have the Word; the Church has both the Word and the Sacrifice. When all you have is the Word, then, the music becomes of greater importance. In our case, the music is at the service of the liturgy, not the other way around.

I beg to differ. As a Protestant with a Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist--you can disagree--my appreciation of Communion texts and melodies follows along the same.

A notable difference between the churches is in how things flow. Catholics tend to rush things along. This is probably a result of clergy needing to go onto another mass or parish, where Protestants don't mind if a sermon runs over--especially if it's one that sticks with you all week. This might explain our congregation not minding singing all the verses of the hymn. It helps to have an organist or pianist who is a good leader. We also don't have "song leaders". Smaller congregations have a higher percentage of folks who stick around after mass for fellowship and study.

benedictgal · #**111** Jun 27, '11, 2:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgar

I beg to differ. As a Protestant with a Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist--you can disagree--my appreciation of Communion texts and melodies follows along the same.

A notable difference between the churches is in how things flow. Catholics tend to rush things along. This is probably a result of clergy needing to go onto another mass or parish, where Protestants don't mind if a sermon runs over--especially if it's one that sticks with you all week. This might explain our congregation not minding singing all the verses of the hymn. It helps to have an organist or pianist who is a good leader. We also don't have "song leaders". Smaller congregations have a higher percentage of folks who stick around after mass for fellowship and study.

This is not about rushing things. By their nature, introductory and concluding rites are brief. The ones that should not be rushed are the Liturgies of the Word and the Eucharist. When there is over and undue emphasis on the music, the liturgy becomes its servant rather than the other way around.

We are not discussing Communion hymns here. We are looking at the recessional. The celebrant at the second Mass was grateful that I was brief with the entrance processional and the recessional. He said that it was exactly as it should be. I trust him because he is extremely knowledgeable in liturgical matters, moreso than I am. He takes his time with his homilies and with the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

TrueLight · #**112** Jun 27, '11, 4:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benedictgal

This is not about rushing things. By their nature, introductory and concluding rites are brief. The ones that should not be rushed are the Liturgies of the Word and the Eucharist. When there is over and undue emphasis on the music, the liturgy becomes its servant rather than the other way around.

We are not discussing Communion hymns here. We are looking at the recessional. The celebrant at the second Mass was grateful that I was brief with the entrance processional and the recessional. He said that it was exactly as it should be. I trust him because he is extremely knowledgeable in liturgical matters, moreso than I am. He takes his time with his homilies and with the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

No offence, but I don't know how else to day this He was happy because you and he share the same legalistic viewpoint when it comes to recessional hymns.

benedictgal · #**113** Jun 27, '11, 6:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueLight

No offence, but I don't know how else to day this He was happy because you and he share the same legalistic viewpoint when it comes to recessional hymns.

I do not mind the offenses, but, I do draw the line with the celebrant. He is probably the most orthodox priest in the diocese and cares about the integrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Furthermore, the Masses he celebrates are reverent and adhere to the rubrics. Sadly, he gets criticized because he is faithful. I have learned much from him.

Irishgal49 · #**114** Jun 27, '11, 6:33 pm

I find people who "cut and run" very annoying. I can't imagine why they have the need to be first to the salad bar up the street. It's long been a pet peeve of mine but I LOVE the Mass. And I think it's rude to walk out like that. But that's me and I realize that I can only change myself. I think it sets a bad example for our children.

.

CatholicZ09 · #**115** Jun 27, '11, 6:33 pm

Quote:

Sadly, he gets criticized because he is faithful.

This is something that has always bothered me. When the faithful get used to something a former priest has done, they see it as "right", but when a new priest comes along and does something the right way, they get slammed for it. This isn't always the case, but I have seen things where this was the case.

TrueLight · #**116** Jun 27, '11, 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benedictgal

I do not mind the offenses, but, I do draw the line with the celebrant. He is probably the most orthodox priest in the diocese and cares about the integrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Furthermore, the Masses he celebrates are reverent and adhere to the rubrics. Sadly, he gets criticized because he is faithful. I have learned much from him.

I'm sure he's a wonderful priest. Please excuse me. I was reading and responding from my iPhone and for some reason, I read "celebrant" as "liturgist."

benedictgal · #**117** Jun 27, '11, 6:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishgal49

I find people who "cut and run" very annoying. I can't imagine why they have the need to be first to the salad bar up the street. It's long been a pet peeve of mine but I LOVE the Mass. And I think it's rude to walk out like that. But that's me and I realize that I can only change myself. I think it sets a bad example for our children.

.

I can understand your angst if people leave immediately after Holy Communion or before the celebrant leaves; however, there is no need for further singing once the celebrant has processed out. We are giving music undue emphasis at this point and adding something extra that was not meant to be.

Sarabande · #**118** Jun 27, '11, 6:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishgal49

I find people who "cut and run" very annoying. I can't imagine why they have the need to be first to the salad bar up the street. It's long been a pet peeve of mine but I LOVE the Mass. And I think it's rude to walk out like that. But that's me and I realize that I can only change myself. I think it sets a bad example for our children.

.

It seems to me it's more about getting out of the parking lot first before they get caught waiting in a long line. That's just as sad, though. They all remind me of the people getting off the trains when I used to take the train home from Manhatten. As soon as the doors would open to my stop, almost everyone would run out of the train, rush up the stairs and to their cars in order to beat out the traffic. It was quite amusing seeing all those businessmen and businesswomen running in their suits and high heels. You could tell that was probably the only time they ran. That's how the end of mass looked like at my childhood parish.

Where I work now, most people live within walking distance from the parish, so no one actually rushes out. Most stay until the music is done.

benedictgal · #**119** Jun 27, '11, 6:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueLight

I'm sure he's a wonderful priest. Please excuse me. I was reading and responding from my iPhone and for some reason, I read "celebrant" as "liturgist."

If you watch NCIS, he is Gibbs and I am a cross between Abby and Ziva, although I do figuratively get the Gibbs headslap from him.

I also have problems reading off my Blackberry. I am too dumb for a smartphone.

TrueLight · #**120** Jun 27, '11, 7:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by benedictgal

If you watch NCIS, he is Gibbs and I am a cross between Abby and Ziva, although I do figuratively get the Gibbs headslap from him.

I also have problems reading off my Blackberry. I am too dumb for a smartphone.

I should also mention that my iPhone fell over the weekend and is cracked in a dozen places, so I was reading while on the bus through shards of glass. ha ha.

New phone in a couple of days!