Dominican Third Order?

[Captain America]

. . . I've been enjoyed works by Timothy Radcliffe. Well-written stuff, with some good insights.

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by Captain America

. . . I've been enjoyed works by Timothy Radcliffe. Well-written stuff, with some good insights.

Agreed. He is very good.

[TrueLight]

Are lay Dominicans encouraged to be political activists?

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by TrueLight

Are lay Dominicans encouraged to be political activists?

I'm not sure. I know of Dominican Friars who work in social justice and do things which could probably be interpreted as community organizing. Whether any lay Dominicans do that as part of their apostolate I am not sure. I suppose in places where they are connected to large groups of Friars or Sisters like New Orleans or Washington DC it would be more likely.


Why do you ask?

[TrueLight]

Originally Posted by jwinch2

I'm not sure. I know of Dominican Friars who work in social justice and do things which could probably be interpreted as community organizing. Whether any lay Dominicans do that as part of their apostolate I am not sure. I suppose in places where they are connected to large groups of Friars or Sisters like New Orleans or Washington DC it would be more likely.


Why do you ask?

I thought I read something like that. That as part of the Dominican charism, Dominicans are taught to speak out, which can translate to political activism. Like for example, organizing petitions against the HHS mandate.

I don't remember the exact source.

I also overheard a postulant having a conversation with a lay Carmelite about politics and the Carmelite said that she is just not going to vote. And the lay Dominican postulant, said "Oh no. I am learning that we need to be active in things like this."

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by TrueLight

I thought I read something like that. That as part of the Dominican charism, Dominicans are taught to speak out, which can translate to political activism. Like for example, organizing petitions against the HHS mandate.

I don't remember the exact source.

I also overheard a postulant having a conversation with a lay Carmelite about politics and the Carmelite said that she is just not going to vote. And the lay Dominican postulant, said "Oh no. I am learning that we need to be active in things like this."

Dominican, Carmelite, or otherwise, I believe the Church teaches that we have a civic responsibility to vote. Whether things get taken beyond that would seem to be more at the discretion of the individual. However, the Church also teaches that we need to stand up and defend the faith. One of the ways we can do that obviously, is by who we elect to office.

[Captain America]

. . . Timothy Radcliffe mentions Dominicans protesting various things. I really believe that Americans have something of a moral obligation to make their voices heard. Otherwise, who chooses? the corporations?

The Church's social justice teachings are one of her great treasures.

[iloveangels]

Originally Posted by Captain America

. . . Timothy Radcliffe mentions Dominicans protesting various things. I really believe that Americans have something of a moral obligation to make their voices heard. Otherwise, who chooses? the corporations?

The Church's social justice teachings are one of her great treasures.

The Franciscan 3rd order, both TOR and OFS, have no problem with it. It's an integral part of our history. Secular Franciscans helped to take down the feudal system because they flatly would not pick up the sword and fight for their local noblemen.

I will be voting. Also I am speaking out about using the federal government for fake works of charity instead of real works of charity, which as Mother Teresa so eloquently demonstrated are done for the love of God and his image in the human race, and not for political gain.

[Captain America]

I see it as a part of the Dominican charism of preaching. . . sometimes you have to preach to those in power, as well as "just folks" people.

[jwinch2]

Brothers and Sisters,

I am writing here to ask for your prayers in my vocational discernment.

Here is the situation. Those who know my past on here know that I have been in formation with the Dominican Laity since last fall and that I had been looking into the Order for longer than that.

It is my belief that I am in a situation where the person that I am and the person which I would like to be are not exactly lining up. With regards to my personality, inclinations, etc. I am a pretty good for the Dominicans. However, for whatever reason, I find myself interested in Benedictine spirituality lately. It comes and goes, but each time it hits me a bit harder. The more I study the Church, the more I am drawn toward a more ancient spiritual approach (I have been reading the Church father and am interested in the Desert Fathers for some reason as well) and to be honest, I find myself not particularly thrilled with reading Aquinas, etc.

In my career, I am a university professor and spend my day analyzing things, asking questions, and debating issues. Not to mention teaching, writing, etc. When it comes to my faith, I admit that a simpler approach seems attractive at times. The bottom line is that I feel that I have the makings to be a pretty good Dominican but I am not 100% sure that it is the route that God is calling me to follow.

I have been praying over this issue for the past month or so and will continue to do so. I hope that some of you might consider me in your prayers from time to time as well. I also plan to speak to our chapter moderator and a friar I am friendly with. Depending on how that goes, I might consider speaking with someone at a local Benedictine abbey regarding their Oblate program, to get their thoughts on the matter.

Anyway, that pretty much sums it up.

Thanks for letting me vent and God Bless,

Jason

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Brothers and Sisters,

I am writing here to ask for your prayers in my vocational discernment.

Here is the situation. Those who know my past on here know that I have been in formation with the Dominican Laity since last fall and that I had been looking into the Order for longer than that.

It is my belief that I am in a situation where the person that I am and the person which I would like to be are not exactly lining up. With regards to my personality, inclinations, etc. I am a pretty good for the Dominicans. However, for whatever reason, I find myself interested in Benedictine spirituality lately. It comes and goes, but each time it hits me a bit harder. The more I study the Church, the more I am drawn toward a more ancient spiritual approach (I have been reading the Church father and am interested in the Desert Fathers for some reason as well) and to be honest, I find myself not particularly thrilled with reading Aquinas, etc.

In my career, I am a university professor and spend my day analyzing things, asking questions, and debating issues. Not to mention teaching, writing, etc. When it comes to my faith, I admit that a simpler approach seems attractive at times. The bottom line is that I feel that I have the makings to be a pretty good Dominican but I am not 100% sure that it is the route that God is calling me to follow.

I have been praying over this issue for the past month or so and will continue to do so. I hope that some of you might consider me in your prayers from time to time as well. I also plan to speak to our chapter moderator and a friar I am friendly with. Depending on how that goes, I might consider speaking with someone at a local Benedictine abbey regarding their Oblate program, to get their thoughts on the matter.

Anyway, that pretty much sums it up.

Thanks for letting me vent and God Bless,

Jason

Jason:

There are a few points here that merit attention.

First:

There is nothing in the Dominican school that is in conflict with the Benedictine tradition. In fact, of all the mendicants, the most monastic are the Dominicans. Contemplation, silence and study is very much a part of their spirituality, which Dominic did not pull out of his sleeve. It was handed down to religious life through the Benedictines.

Second:

So you're not looking forward to reading Aquinas. Who said that you have to read Aquinas? First, as Pope Benedict said, Aquinas is a genius, but he can be very boring. That's why Pope Benedict put him down and picked up Augustine and Bonaventure. He said they were much warmer.

There is nothing that you can read in Catholicism that's not going to have a sprinkling of Aquinas, without having to sit through the entire Summa. There are books that are compendiums of the Summa, which are very good. In our formation program we use one called The Concise Summa. It only has those parts of Aquinas that the Church actually incorporated into her theology and leaves out everything else. It's a very easy read and quick interesting, because it does not use the question and answer format. I reads like a narrative. In other words, it has everything any Catholic needs to know from Aquinas. The rest of Aquinas is fine, but it's more for scholars. The Church herself doesn't use it.

Third:

The Dominican Third Order came out of the Franciscan Third Order. Originally, it was an order of penance, following the Rule of Penance that Francis had written for his third order. It eventually became known as the Dominican Order of Penance. Somewhere along the line, that name was lost. The point is that the essence to the vocation to the Dominican third order is not to scholarship, but to love by doing penance. We see this very clearly in the life of St.Catherine of Siena and Bl. Pierre Giorgio. These were people of great penance and charity. They did not spend their time on scholarship as much as they did in prayer and work.

Finally:

There is nothing wrong with being open to the Holy Spirit. By all means, visit a Benedictine house and inquire about the Oblate vocation.

I will be praying for you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

[Kithrus]

Hold on a tick the Dominicans didn't come out of the Franciscans at all.... They were formed at the same time and the founders knew each other personally but it ends there.

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by JReducation

Jason:

There are a few points here that merit attention.

First:

There is nothing in the Dominican school that is in conflict with the Benedictine tradition. In fact, of all the mendicants, the most monastic are the Dominicans. Contemplation, silence and study is very much a part of their spirituality, which Dominic did not pull out of his sleeve. It was handed down to religious life through the Benedictines.

Second:

So you're not looking forward to reading Aquinas. Who said that you have to read Aquinas? First, as Pope Benedict said, Aquinas is a genius, but he can be very boring. That's why Pope Benedict put him down and picked up Augustine and Bonaventure. He said they were much warmer.

There is nothing that you can read in Catholicism that's not going to have a sprinkling of Aquinas, without having to sit through the entire Summa. There are books that are compendiums of the Summa, which are very good. In our formation program we use one called The Concise Summa. It only has those parts of Aquinas that the Church actually incorporated into her theology and leaves out everything else. It's a very easy read and quick interesting, because it does not use the question and answer format. I reads like a narrative. In other words, it has everything any Catholic needs to know from Aquinas. The rest of Aquinas is fine, but it's more for scholars. The Church herself doesn't use it.

Third:

The Dominican Third Order came out of the Franciscan Third Order. Originally, it was an order of penance, following the Rule of Penance that Francis had written for his third order. It eventually became known as the Dominican Order of Penance. Somewhere along the line, that name was lost. The point is that the essence to the vocation to the Dominican third order is not to scholarship, but to love by doing penance. We see this very clearly in the life of St.Catherine of Siena and Bl. Pierre Giorgio. These were people of great penance and charity. They did not spend their time on scholarship as much as they did in prayer and work.

Finally:

There is nothing wrong with being open to the Holy Spirit. By all means, visit a Benedictine house and inquire about the Oblate vocation.

I will be praying for you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thank you Brother, both for your words, and your prayers.


Peace,

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by Kithrus

Hold on a tick the Dominicans didn't come out of the Franciscans at all.... They were formed at the same time and the founders knew each other personally but it ends there.

The Dominican nuns were founded first. The friars came second. The Dominican Third Order came out of the Franciscan Order of Penance.

It was a whole movement that Francis set into motion. There was no such thing as a secular order until Francis came along. Many of these people who wanted to follow the penitential movement joined Francis' movement and within a few years they were erected as Dominican Penitents. They had contact with the Friar Preachers; but the Friar Preachers did not have a secular order, nor permission to found one. As these numbers grew, it became evident that there was room in the Church for a secular Dominican Order.

Actually, as history has it, the Dominicans improved on what Francis founded. What Francis founded was very simple by comparison.

http://curia.op.org/en/index.php/eng...y-of-the-laity

What Dominic founded was the Militia of Jesus, which popular piety called the Dominican Third Order, but it was not so. It was a different body.

The Order of Penance had been founded by St. Francis. There were two groups within them, those who felt affinity with the Franciscans and those who felt affinity with the Dominicans. Since they were not part of the Friars Minor, it made no difference to the Friars whether the individuals leaned more toward Dominic than Francis. They didn't actually become part of the Dominican Order until 1285, long after the death of our Holy Father Dominic.

I should add that the Dominican nuns and the Dominican Friars flowed out of the Augustinian tradition. Dominic was an Augustinian. To this day, the Dominicans follow the Rule of St. Augustine. Dominic never thought of a third order, because there was no such thing in the Church until St. Francis. That's the connection between the Lay Dominicans and Secular Franciscans. They were all one Order of Penance.

Hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV

[TrueLight]

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Brothers and Sisters,

I am writing here to ask for your prayers in my vocational discernment.

Here is the situation. Those who know my past on here know that I have been in formation with the Dominican Laity since last fall and that I had been looking into the Order for longer than that.

It is my belief that I am in a situation where the person that I am and the person which I would like to be are not exactly lining up. With regards to my personality, inclinations, etc. I am a pretty good for the Dominicans. However, for whatever reason, I find myself interested in Benedictine spirituality lately. It comes and goes, but each time it hits me a bit harder. The more I study the Church, the more I am drawn toward a more ancient spiritual approach (I have been reading the Church father and am interested in the Desert Fathers for some reason as well) and to be honest, I find myself not particularly thrilled with reading Aquinas, etc.

In my career, I am a university professor and spend my day analyzing things, asking questions, and debating issues. Not to mention teaching, writing, etc. When it comes to my faith, I admit that a simpler approach seems attractive at times. The bottom line is that I feel that I have the makings to be a pretty good Dominican but I am not 100% sure that it is the route that God is calling me to follow.

I have been praying over this issue for the past month or so and will continue to do so. I hope that some of you might consider me in your prayers from time to time as well. I also plan to speak to our chapter moderator and a friar I am friendly with. Depending on how that goes, I might consider speaking with someone at a local Benedictine abbey regarding their Oblate program, to get their thoughts on the matter.

Anyway, that pretty much sums it up.

Thanks for letting me vent and God Bless,

Jason

Jason, you are most assuredly in my prayers.

Remember this time is indeed a time to discern and to be open to what God has in store for you.

You might also want to reach out to some of the Oblates on CAF, which you probably already have.

You have a great network of people praying for you, so be at peace.