Dominican Third Order? - Page 18

jwinch2 · #**256** May 12, '12, 6:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JReducation

Well Jason, I will continue to pray for you. If you can get your hands on it, read a book by Benedict Groeschel, CFR called Everyday Encounters With God, especially chapters 3 and 5.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thanks for the prayers and for the recommendation on the book. I will check it out!

Peace,

Melchior_ · #**257** May 15, '12, 11:02 pm

We're sitting at eighteen pages now for this thread, and it's incredible how God leads people to where they are supposed to be. And it turns out for two people now, what started as a "shazam, Lay Dominicans!" has become "I think God is calling me some place else". Although in my case, it's not a large leap.

It seems as if that my good friend Brother Jim's idea of "the spirituality of geography" is coming into play once more. Brother Jim told me that due to there being zero Saelisian co-operators in the area, I could rule them out. Using that logic, the constant disorganization and total lack of meetings/contact from those in the Priory is probably a good indicator that perhaps that place shouldn't be in the running either. The fact the the other group contacted me ON THE SAME DAY was a big plus. That and something else....

What Jason said before, that his job involved teaching/thinking/research, and that his personality was like that....it made sense. The intellectual side of Dominicans appealed to me, the contemplative did too. However a couple things I couldn't shake;

1) Fraternity and fellowship is critical, and I felt as if I wouldn't get that from the local Dominican group.

2) I feel drawn to what I call the "lunchbox" Catholicism. You grab your lunchbox, and do what needs to be done to get the job done.

3) The nagging feeling that I was over thinking things. By a lot. Some things just line up perfectly, but too perfectly, so you start doubting if it's really all that perfect. Things like having ones life saved at a conference being run by a religious order, and happening to be born on the founder of said order's feast day. It seemed too neat'n'tidy.

But sometimes....I guess the easiest answer is the right one. The right one all along. A few years ago I'd be angry at myself for "wasting this time", but no time was wasted. It's a learning process, a journey we take in our walk with God.

Talking things through with my wife has helped out, as had discussing things with others. Several posters here have helped. Specifically TrueLight, Marauder, Timothy, you've all been wonderful. And of course Brother JR, who I can't thank enough for his wisdom and patience.

And of course Jason. Our respective vocational paths are in this thread! Crazy stuff.

Anyway, the group I'm looking at is taking two months off for the summer, which gives me some time to read up on a few things. Maybe actually finishing a book for once! But the group seems established, and I can easily fit it into my schedule.

Plus, interestingly enough.....they're trying to start a young adults ministry. Which dovetails nicely into the aposolate I've been doing for nine years.

Captain America · #**258** May 16, '12, 6:48 am

M., as you note, it's interesting reading the different takes on it. I DO think this is a subject that can be OVER-analyzed (more likely than under-analyzed), and of course, when this happens, many people will tend to fence-sit wavering endlessly.

And our culture doesn't really much prize long-term commitment and definitional acts of personhood.

It's likely that just as there are other women who would have been a good spouse for me, there are other associations, third orders, etc., that would have worked for me. Adding spice to the mix is that the various orders have their charisms, which endure and have appeal because they DO connect with deeply important aspects of human life. So it can all look good.

For me, I think actually DOING it, making the commitment, is what's valuable. And of course in this life, not anything is perfect.

Melchior_ · #**259** May 16, '12, 7:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain America

M., as you note, it's interesting reading the different takes on it. I DO think this is a subject that can be OVER-analyzed (more likely than under-analyzed), and of course, when this happens, many people will tend to fence-sit wavering endlessly.

And our culture doesn't really much prize long-term commitment and definitional acts of personhood.

It's likely that just as there are other women who would have been a good spouse for me, there are other associations, third orders, etc., that would have worked for me. Adding spice to the mix is that the various orders have their charisms, which endure and have appeal because they DO connect with deeply important aspects of human life. So it can all look good.

For me, I think actually DOING it, making the commitment, is what's valuable. And of course in this life, not anything is perfect.

Very astute, Mr. Rogers.

Batfink · #**260** May 16, '12, 2:13 pm

Aw man, I'm losing you all! Just when I thought I was going to have some CAF Lay Dominican buddies

Anyway, my prayers will be with you all (esp. Jason and Melchior) as you continue your discernment. I don't post on here very often any more but I do lurk around and pray for you.

I'm hopefully going to be enrolled in the Angelic Warfare Confraternity tomorrow, pretty close to the first anniversary of my temporary profession as a Lay Domincan. Any prayers would be appreciated.

jwinch2 · #**261** May 16, '12, 2:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batfink

Any prayers would be appreciated.

Count on it!

Peace,

LSK · #**262** May 16, '12, 3:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReluctantSeeker

Can I ask, what is the purpose of the Dominican Third Order? I'm told they are supposed to hold the same sort of charism as the Dominican's, but what does that mean? Preaching, evangelisation? I've never seen any talks by them, no papers, no books, no reflections of any sort (God or anything about their vocations), nada. Are there any? If so, where? Do they help out the Dominicans in any way? Do the Dominican's help them? If so, how?

I am assuming that they don't go about preaching like the friars, but one might think they had some role somewhere with regard to sharing the faith. I'm assuming their first duty would be to develop a relationship with God, and come to a better understanding. Study and prayer would probably be important too,... but what else?

Or are they sort of a fan club?

I will be making my first promise this July as a Lay Dominican. I am a RCIA Catechist and found myself drawn to the Order and its Charism because of their love for study and (I think) because of my work as a catechist. I love the fact that study of the Faith itself is a kind of prayer for Dominicans, and that there is a huge emphasis on Faith AND Reason, something that many say is incompatible but that Catholics believe is essential.

I wish I could explain it better but I hope that helps a bit.

Luigi Daniele · #**263** May 16, '12, 3:28 pm

I am (fairly) certain that I have reached the end. At the beginning. Which I guess isn't so odd.

1. Was an SFO. Left. Maybe I should have stuck it out. I don't know, TBH. Although, several openly practicing gay members, and a really awful run-in with a member just pushed me away.

2. Missed it. 4 of the holiest people that I know are still there.

3. Searching. Tried the Bennies (who I like a very great deal). A bit too much like me, really. No challenge there. Lousy at Lectio Divina, and non-Catholics at meetings just not really my cup of tea. "Our" monk is one of the finest men that I know.

4. Got an email from 1 of the holy people I mentioned in #2. Mentioned how the OFS (I like that arrangement of letters several orders of magnitude better) is returning to its roots...no more "Wackos please apply" signs.

So there is where I am at.

Pluses:

OblOSB: Father (mentioned above), closer by almost 1 hour (although the Monastery itself is 4 hours away), LotH (see negatives, though)

OFS: the 4 mentioned in #2, LotH, "connect" with St Francis, Padre Pio better, love the Admonitions, Assisi is "home"

Minuses:

OblOSB: tad overly charismatic (fainting, etc), LotH is their own version (I don't feel like I am "praying with the Church"), a couple of...err.....odd members

OFS: 1 wacko; group more politically liberal than me (although not "in your face" as it used to be), distance (1 hour drive both ways)

We were in Italy at the shrine of my family run by Franciscans about 20 years ago. Fell in love with it (and Assisi). Decided that I was drawn to something more....which turned out to eventually be the SFO.

Found out later that the shrine is run by Benedictines. Duh.

I sometimes wonder why the good Lord allowed me to make that mistake, TBH*. If I had known that the shrine was Benedictine, that's probably the way I would have gone in the first place. Particularly since it was about the time I entered Formation in the SFO, that the Monastery established an Oblate group in my town.

Anyway, both groups have a meeting in early July. I have to know which by then...

*any ideas/thoughts/input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Luigi Daniele · #**264** May 16, '12, 4:26 pm

To be clear: I really like the LotH of the Monastery...it's just that it feels "odd" praying it by "ourselves".

Any insights?

JReducation · #**265** May 16, '12, 7:19 pm

A few thoughts.

1. The LOTH is always going to be kind of lonely when you're a secular, because it's really meant to be prayed in community unless you're a hermit or Jesuit. Their breviary is specifically designed to be prayed alone. But, since you don't have a community, do the best you can and don't sweat it.

2. The Benedictine LOTH is not going to be the same as the rest of the Church, because it' snot part of the Benedictine tradition to pray the same office as the Church. The abbot can write the entire LOTH as he believes it to best for his monks. Monastery usually form alliances called congregations. They're not really congregations, because obviously there is no central authority. However, instead of one abbot writing the entire LOTH for his monastery, they work on it together for several monasteries. It's less work. Don't think that you're not praying with the Church, even if you're doing something different. If you were a Franciscan, this weeks would be a was for you. We had four Franciscan holy days this week. Everything in the Roman Breviary and Roman Missal went out the window. We prayed out of our breviary and said mass out of our missal. But we're still praying with the Church. On Sept 5 you would be praying the LOTH and mass for Bl. Mother Teresa and on Oct 22, the LOTH and mass for Bl. John Paul, but you're still praying with the Church. Your just on a different page.

We're supposed to pray together, not necessarily the same thing.

3. You said that there are actively gay members in one of the fraternities. I hope that you're mistaken. That should not be happening. We love gay people and we serve their spiritual, material and emotional needs. But we can't incorporate those who are actively engaging in objectively sinful behavior.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

jwinch2 · #**266** May 16, '12, 7:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele

To be clear: I really like the LotH of the Monastery...it's just that it feels "odd" praying it by "ourselves".

Any insights?

If you are referring to the Monastic Diurnal then I would just consider that you are praying with thousands of Benedictines all over the world. You are certainly praying with the Church when you pray the hours that way.

Also, you might just consider praying the regular liturgy of the hours when you are not at the monastery if it works better for you. I haven't seen anything hard and fast regarding a requirement to use the Monastic Diurnal, merely to pray "some part of the hours" everyday.

jwinch2 · #**267** May 17, '12, 1:03 am

Are you required to pray the Monastic Diurnal if you stay with the OSB? Pretty much everything I have seen is that Oblates are obligated to pray "some part of the liturgy of the hours". Perhaps you can just pray the regular hours if you like that better. However, I would suggest that praying the Diurnal might unite you more closely in spirit with your monastery?

Question. You may have mentioned this before, but have you made your final oblation at this point?

I'm sure you will figure all of this out soon.

Peace,

Luigi Daniele · #**268** May 17, '12, 8:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JReducation

A few thoughts.

1. The LOTH is always going to be kind of lonely when you're a secular, because it's really meant to be prayed in community unless you're a hermit or Jesuit. Their breviary is specifically designed to be prayed alone. But, since you don't have a community, do the best you can and don't sweat it.

2. The Benedictine LOTH is not going to be the same as the rest of the Church, because it' snot part of the Benedictine tradition to pray the same office as the Church. The abbot can write the entire LOTH as he believes it to best for his monks. Monastery usually form alliances called congregations. They're not really congregations, because obviously there is no central authority. However, instead of one abbot writing the entire LOTH for his monastery, they work on it together for several monasteries. It's less work. Don't think that you're not praying with the Church, even if you're doing something different. If you were a Franciscan, this weeks would be a was for you. We had four Franciscan holy days this week. Everything in the Roman Breviary and Roman Missal went out the window. We prayed out of our breviary and said mass out of our missal. But we're still praying with the Church. On Sept 5 you would be praying the LOTH and mass for Bl. Mother Teresa and on Oct 22, the LOTH and mass for Bl. John Paul, but you're still praying with the Church. Your just on a different page.

We're supposed to pray together, not necessarily the same thing.

3. You said that there are actively gay members in one of the fraternities. I hope that you're mistaken. That should not be happening. We love gay people and we serve their spiritual, material and emotional needs. But we can't incorporate those who are actively engaging in objectively sinful behavior.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

3. They were finally booted out by a Deacon.

Thanks for your response, brother.

Luigi Daniele · #**269** May 17, '12, 8:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Are you required to pray the Monastic Diurnal if you stay with the OSB? Pretty much everything I have seen is that Oblates are obligated to pray "some part of the liturgy of the hours". Perhaps you can just pray the regular hours if you like that better. However, I would suggest that praying the Diurnal might unite you more closely in spirit with your monastery?

Question. You may have mentioned this before, but have you made your final oblation at this point?

I'm sure you will figure all of this out soon.

Peace,

It is not the MD. It is a LotH +, if you will. An extra Psalm at Lauds and at Vespers, and a much longer reading.

Melchior_ · #**270** May 17, '12, 12:18 pm

Objectively speaking, if OSF kicked out the problem people, that evens the playing field a bit. Now it seems there's a couple of "odd" people in both places.

I'm guessing you're not into the charismatic aspect. That's understandable, I'll be the first to admit it's not for everyone. If it makes you super uneasy, I'd say go to the OSF. If you can set aside your discomfort, to me it seems that the Benedictines are where you might fit in best.