What must I do to be saved?

[Rogare]

Originally Posted by pablope

[in his name.


Ignoring it? I did not, I said that is just one part or the beginning-to know who Christ is and to believe He is the son of God. John wrote to supplement the other Gospels.

You seem to focus only on John's or one section of John's Gospel.

I am simply highlighting John's Gospel because he plainly states: if you read what I have written, you will have enough information to believe that Christ is the Son of God and have life in His name.

and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (2 Timothy 3:15)


I remember this being discussed in another thread. I would repeat that this is the usual protestant tradition to miss v14, which states...

14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,

This speaks of oral teaching and guidance, not just scripture alone.

Friend, you are making this say what you want it to. A natural reading indicates that Paul is saying that the Scriptures are what can make Timothy wise unto salvation. Let me ask you this: what did Timothy learn aside from what was in the Scriptures that made Him wise unto salvation?

For this to be true, the Bible has to state it, right? So where does the Bible state this fact?

Where does the Bible say that Sacred Tradition is of equal authority to the Scriptures? The Bible speaks glowingly of itself as God's word; it doesn't have much positive to say about tradition.

Why is it out of context? Paul is speaking of what he taught, which he got from the Apostles-which later became Sacred Tradition, which predates any earliest writing of the NT and the Church surviving without Scripture for 400 years prior to the Bible being canonized.

The CC has understood the Bible for 1100 years prior to any protestant denomination.

So which or who do you think is being dishonest?

I would urge you to watch your words, and not label anything "dishonest". We may disagree and even though I disagree with some of your interpretations, I did not label anything as being dishonest.

In the immediate context, what is he speaking of? Why did he write 2 Thessalonians at all? He wrote it because they were bugging out over the second coming of Christ. The traditions Paul is speaking of concern what he had taught them about Christ's second coming. It has nothing to do with all the traditions that Church has added over the last 2000 years.

This verse speaks of the some aspects of Christ's life on earth. Correct, Christ handed the full deposit of faith to the Apostles, and the Church they built, which contains it and the CC proclaims this truth...and that is why the CC is the pillar and foundation of truth because Christ is the Truth.

I take it you hold a partim-partim view of Scripture. Tell me this; how on Earth did the Israelites ever figure out what Scripture was in the OT? They certainly didn't have an infallible Magisterium.

Keep in mind, when these epistles were written, their intended audience were already Christians, "saved" in your parlance and have received and believed the message of the Gospel.

.

Who wrote Hebrews? Why did he write it? It's not 100% clear to whom Hebrews was intended for (aside from Hebrews ). We know there's no Church of Hebrews like there is the Church of Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc. Therefore, it's impossible to say that Hebrews was written specifically for those that are saved. It is just as likely it is intended for unbelievers who were intellectually convinced of the gospel or those that were not yet convinced.

Who do you think are those who "have received the knowledge of the truth (heb 10)?

I have witnessed to my friend Rob many times. He has knowledge of the truth, yet he rejects it. Judas had received knowledge of the truth- He obviously was never saved.

Who do you think are those who "though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, (rom 11)?

I have discussed this elsewhere.

And who do you think are the following quotes being addressed to: "Otherwise, you also will be cut off "...."he will not spare you either"....."no sacrifice for sins is left".

I have addressed these elsewhere as well. I find God's word to be completely consistent. We can start a perseverance of the saints thread if you wish. Protestant theologians have addressed your "problems" for over half a millennium. Check out some good Protestant literature.

I am not that familiar with your reformed confessions, but I will say that God sees good in men, and wills all to salvation.

Where do you find support for these ideas?

Well, speaking of taking verses out of context, how did you come to the conclusion the thief was predestined?

If he was saved he was predestined unto salvation. It's that way with all the regenerate. We can discuss this in a different thread as well if you wish. A simple search on predestination will get you what you want.

It's okay to believe in predestination as a Catholic; Augustine and Aquinas both taught it

[polang1234]

Actually the protestants doesn't have faith in Jesus. Why?
First let me explain that faith is believing even you don't understand. If you believe because you understand it's not faith.
If they have faith in Jesus they should join the Church that Jesus started.

[Jim Dandy]

Originally Posted by Rogare

di·vine
[dih-vahyn] adjective, -vin·er, -vin·est, noun, verb, -vined, -vin·ing.

–noun
10. a theologian; scholar in religion.

Please do a little research before you start such an outlandish diatribe.

My use of "divine" related to my question about the infallibility of the Westminster Confession. You failed to answer the question.

You keep arguing 2 Tm 3:14-17. St. Paul is referring to the Greek Septuagint OT, his own Scriptures and the Scriptures Timothy knew from childhood, and which Protestants reject. Go figure.

Jim Dandy

[Jim Dandy]

Originally Posted by Rogare

If he was saved he was predestined unto salvation. It's that way with all the regenerate. We can discuss this in a different thread as well if you wish. A simple search on predestination will get you what you want.

It's okay to believe in predestination as a Catholic; Augustine and Aquinas both taught it

The Catholic Church rejects the "double predestination" of John Calvin and his followers.

Don't misrepresent what the Church teaches.

See Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 239, 242-44.

Jim Dandy

[fpesce]

1 Peter 1
A Living Hope, and a Sure Salvation 1

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, [a]to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, 7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of [g]your souls.

10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories [i]to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to [j]look.

13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, [l]keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”

17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, 23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS,
AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS.
THE GRASS WITHERS,
AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,
25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER.”

And this is the word which was preached to you.

[fpesce]

John 3:7-21


‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

[DoriAndBubba]

Can someone explain these verses to me please.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[ESMDHokie77]

Originally Posted by DoriAndBubba

Can someone explain these verses to me please.

For starters, your John 6 verses are cherry picked out of the explanation of the Eucharist. For we must eat The Flesh of the Son of Man to have eternal life. Jesus had just fed 5000 people with multiplying a few fish and a few loaves.

John 6:56: Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

[DoriAndBubba]

I was asking for someone to explain the verses....

So I went and read John Capter 6. to see what he meant. I believe Jesus was comparing Himself to the manna God sent down from Heaven.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

From what I'm reading that God (Jesus) will supply all our needs when we come to Him and believe in Him. What I'm seeing is that belief is most important. I pulled out these verses, you could call it cherry picking. It explains TO ME what that one verse was saying. Didn't Jesus give his flesh when he died on the cross?

What about the other verses? Can you explain those to me?

[Philthy]

Originally Posted by Jim Dandy

And ... ? What else must I do?

How many times will the insufficiency of the words "be saved" need to be pointed out?
For some Protestants the word "saved" means that someone has an irrevocable ticket to Heaven. For Catholics (and the NT authors) this is not the case. It is useless to have a discussion without clarifying these differences and ensuring that we use the word "saved" to mean precisely the same thing.

Becoming saved is awesome and necessary, but remaining saved and going to Heaven is the ultimate goal and completion of salvation. And so the question is not merely, "What must I do to be saved?", but "What must I do - and avoid doing - once I'm saved to ensure that when I die I will go to Heaven??

[Philthy]

Originally Posted by fpesce

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope

You should reflect on why we are described as having a living hope rather than an absolute assurance of our own inheritance in Heaven

...who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Unfortunately you have assumed that since the place in Heaven reserved for us is imperishable and undefiled that we must, therefore actually inherit it. You are mistaken. Like all gifts, this gift can be and is rejected. Everyone who is in Hell had a place in Heaven created for them but they squandered and ultimately rejected that inheritance for the lures of the world. Wise up...

6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, 7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Notice that the author chooses to say, "...so that...your faith,...may be found to result in praise and glory and honor" What do you suppose happens if it is NOT found to result in praise and glory and honor? Something or nothing?
We should view our lives and our moral choices as a both a trial to prove - and an opportunity to perfect by grace - how genuine our faith is so that at the completion of our lives we are judged worthy of our inheritance.

[David Castlen]

Originally Posted by WesleyF

Repent, believe and be baptized

and after that, if you commit mortal sin,

Repent, believe and confess.

That, in essence, is the Catholic message of salvation.

Well Wesley, don't we have to do some good works along the way? What about those goats and sheep and when the young rich man asked Jesus what must I do to be saved didn't Jesus say to keep the commandments and the second chp of James says that we are not saved by faith alone but by faith and works.

[David Castlen]

Originally Posted by PeterGStanley

Ah its easier just to become a protestant - Lol - but I'm Catholic.

What you just wrote is more profound than you may think. I remember when I came back to the church a lady from my old protestant church said she was a Baptist because it was a lot simpler. I wish I would have said, "..... that because a car is complicated it is not real and because the theory of relativity is complicated it holds little weight......"

It is easy to sell simple things - the sophist win with simplicity: KISS.

Thanks for your insight.

[ewootenjr]

Originally Posted by ActuallyAquinas

Well, there is not much to the ritual of asking Jesus into your heart. As a Protestant, that is what you do to "know you're saved," Catholics we don't have assurance of salvation.

We have to run the race, pick up our cross daily, follow the commands of God, be the perfect us we can be, &c.

There is no simple ritual which we can just do and have assurance of salvation.

Actually if you have saving faith (trust & commitment & love/fear for God then that's where your assurance comes from. All you have to do for assurance is keep trusting in Him-trust means being faithful to whatever He calls you to do in your life and in accordance to His Word. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin that leads you to hell. In 1 John5 it's called the sin that leads to death. That's renouncing your faith in God (Jesus). If you truly have the changed heart that's mentioned in Ezekiel then it's hard to renounce your faith. I've tried. The OSAS doctrine of the Protestants is false doctrine indeed but the early church fathers preached perseverance of the Saints. Meaning if you had the Holy Spirit by grace through faith in the Lord (trusting in Him with your life), then you would persevere by surrendering to Him andletting Him live through you.
Hope this helps,
Erwin
P.S.; Denominationalism is a sin because it divides. Why be catholic, baptist, pentecostal, lutheran, presbyterian? Why can't we just call ourselves Christians?

[fpesce]

1 John 2
Christ Is Our Advocate

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
The Promise Is Eternal Life
25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Matthew 22:37

And He said to him, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND”.
38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

John 13

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”