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  #1  
Old Jul 12, '11, 6:40 pm
joclucsylv joclucsylv is offline
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Default What books are missing in protestant bible?

Also, can you explain to me how the dead sea scrolls are related to those missing books. If Luther was alive, would he know he made a grave mistake in removing those books, because of the found dead sea scrolls?
  #2  
Old Jul 12, '11, 7:42 pm
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followingtheway followingtheway is offline
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Wink Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

The "Deutorocanonical/Apocryphal" books in between the Old Testament and New Testament.

  • Tobit
  • Judith
  • Additions to Esther (Vulgate Esther 10:4-16:24)
  • Wisdom
  • Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus)
  • Baruch, including the Letter of Jeremiah (Additions to Jeremiah in the Septuagint)
  • Additions to Daniel:
  • Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Holy Children (Vulgate Daniel 3:24-90)
  • Susanna (Vulgate Daniel 13, Septuagint prologue)
  • Bel and the Dragon (Vulgate Daniel 14, Septuagint epilogue)
  • 1 Maccabees
  • 2 Maccabees

God bless

David
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Last edited by followingtheway; Jul 12, '11 at 7:56 pm.
  #3  
Old Jul 12, '11, 7:55 pm
Wesley7 Wesley7 is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Can you name the specific bible translation that has all the canonical books? Latin Vulgate>
  #4  
Old Jul 13, '11, 9:14 am
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Vulgate, NABRE, RSV-2CE, Douay-Rheims, those are the basics. For protestants, the original KJV does, as do some Lutheran bibles.
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  #5  
Old Jul 13, '11, 11:39 am
x1980x x1980x is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Guy View Post
Vulgate, NABRE, RSV-2CE, Douay-Rheims, those are the basics. For protestants, the original KJV does, as do some Lutheran bibles.
As Swiss Guy said, not all Protestant bibles are "missing" books.
  #6  
Old Jul 13, '11, 12:01 pm
ajcstr ajcstr is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Guy View Post
Vulgate, NABRE, RSV-2CE, Douay-Rheims, those are the basics. For protestants, the original KJV does, as do some Lutheran bibles.
Add to this the Jerusalem Bible/New Jerusalem Bible

Keep in mind these "Catholic" bibles include the 7 additional OT books as part of the OT.
There are many Bibles that include a section called the "Apocrypha" which includes the 7 deuteros as well as additional books such as 3 & 4 Maccabees.

A Bible is considered a "Catholic Edition" if it contains 46 books in the OT in traditional Catholic order. All Bibles include 27 NT books.
  #7  
Old Jul 13, '11, 12:13 pm
ajcstr ajcstr is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joclucsylv View Post
Also, can you explain to me how the dead sea scrolls are related to those missing books. If Luther was alive, would he know he made a grave mistake in removing those books, because of the found dead sea scrolls?
An argument first brought up by Jerome and later by Luther was that there were no copies of the Deuterocanonical books in Hebrew. They only had Greek manuscripts. Jerome first believed that these books should not be part of the OT. Luther had the same argument believing that these were later additions that crept into the OT. The Dead Sea scrolls contained fragments of Sirach and Tobit in Hebrew.

See http://www.thesacredpage.com/2006/03...nt-of-old.html
for more info.
  #8  
Old Jul 13, '11, 2:31 pm
Publisher Publisher is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Compared to the Orthodox Bible canon...a few more than the Catholics are missing.
  #9  
Old Jul 13, '11, 7:38 pm
kylemccloughan kylemccloughan is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

This may be for another thread, but if the Orthodox and the Roman churches were one in the same before 1054ad, then why do they both have different books in their canons today? The councils responsible for compiling the canon are part of the Orthodox church today. Who is in error? Those councils that compiled the Scriptures or the Catholic church today who has less books in their version of the canon?
  #10  
Old Jul 14, '11, 7:11 am
ajcstr ajcstr is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylemccloughan View Post
This may be for another thread, but if the Orthodox and the Roman churches were one in the same before 1054ad, then why do they both have different books in their canons today? The councils responsible for compiling the canon are part of the Orthodox church today. Who is in error? Those councils that compiled the Scriptures or the Catholic church today who has less books in their version of the canon?
I may be wrong but I thought the Orthodox Churches always recognized the additional books they use today, even before the East/West split. I believe the Catholic Church follows the canon that was presented at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage which are the same books included in Jerome's Latin Vulgate..
  #11  
Old Jul 14, '11, 9:16 am
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley7 View Post
Can you name the specific bible translation that has all the canonical books? Latin Vulgate>
The Syriac, Old Latin, and Coptic versions from c. A,D 150 contain them as do the fourth and fifth century Codexes (Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus), and the Latin Vulgate (published A.D. 405). The Douay-Rheims, a 16th century translation, has them. They are in all the modern Catholic Bibles -- New American, Jerusalem, St. Joseph Edition, etc. They are also in the Protestant RSV Catholic Edition.

The canon was decided at the Councils of Rome (A.D. 382), Hippo (393), and the third and fourth Carthage (397, 419). The same canon was named in each of these local councils, whose decrees were approved by popes. The pope's approval sealed and finalized the decision(s).

Jim Dandy
  #12  
Old Jul 14, '11, 9:53 am
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Luther rejected the Greek Septuagint in favor of the Hebrew canon, The Palestinian rabbis had rejected it well into the Christian era because it was used by the Apostles to evangelize the entire Mediterranean world, including many Jews, and it was the Scripture of the early Church.

The Septuagint was a translation from the Hebrew. Only two 'books' -- Wisdom and 2 Maccabees -- were originally in Greek. The Hebrew text of the other books was lost and is preserved only in the Greek.

When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, Hebrew fragments of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) and Tobit were found, indicating that they (and others) should not have been rejected by the rabbis or by Luther on the basis that they were not in Hebrew.

Jim Dandy
  #13  
Old Jul 14, '11, 11:58 am
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajcstr View Post
An argument first brought up by Jerome and later by Luther was that there were no copies of the Deuterocanonical books in Hebrew. They only had Greek manuscripts. Jerome first believed that these books should not be part of the OT. Luther had the same argument believing that these were later additions that crept into the OT. The Dead Sea scrolls contained fragments of Sirach and Tobit in Hebrew.

See http://www.thesacredpage.com/2006/03...nt-of-old.html
for more info.
Probably another good reason for Lutherans to include them.

Jon
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"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
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  #14  
Old Jul 14, '11, 12:45 pm
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ChristisRisen32 ChristisRisen32 is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonNC View Post
Probably another good reason for Lutherans to include them.

Jon
Do you think they should be part of the canon?

God Bless,
Tony
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  #15  
Old Jul 14, '11, 1:41 pm
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: What books are missing in protestant bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristisRisen32 View Post
Do you think they should be part of the canon?

God Bless,
Tony
Tony,
I still believe they should be taken cautiously. With regards to setting doctrine, it seems prudent to have sources from the undisputed books. With that caveat, why not? (And I can say that as a Lutheran since the confessions don't set a canon. )

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
Chemnitz
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