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  #1  
Old Jul 18, '11, 12:14 pm
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Shannon Moore Shannon Moore is offline
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Question The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

I have a friend who was wondering what the differences are. Since he and I are both Catholic, we don't really know what the differences are. Any help is most welcome!
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  #2  
Old Jul 18, '11, 12:44 pm
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Shannon Moore View Post
I have a friend who was wondering what the differences are. Since he and I are both Catholic, we don't really know what the differences are. Any help is most welcome!
I would suggest, as a starting place, a reading of the Augsburg Confession, the central confessional document of Lutheranism. In the link is the confession. At the end of each article, is a link to the Confutation (the Catholic response), followed by the Lutheran Apology, which responds to the Confutation.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php


For this Lutheran, and it could be charged that I am in the minority, I see the biggest issue between our communions as ecclesiology, that meaing the issue of the power and primacy of the pope. Now, under that issue, comes others - how we view Marian doctrines, etc.

Many of the issues between us are being discussed, and there has been much progress over the last 50 years. We do still have a long way to go.

If you have questions, or as others respond, I will be happy to reflect further.

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
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  #3  
Old Jul 18, '11, 2:24 pm
Newbie2 Newbie2 is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

Good advice (as usual, Jon).

I found there to be few roadblocks to converting from LCMS to Catholocism, and agree that the "biggie" is the magesterial authority of the Pope. If one can "get over" that , the rest falls into line quite nicely.
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Old Jul 18, '11, 2:34 pm
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Newbie2 View Post
Good advice (as usual, Jon).

I found there to be few roadblocks to converting from LCMS to Catholocism, and agree that the "biggie" is the magesterial authority of the Pope. If one can "get over" that , the rest falls into line quite nicely.


Haven't seen you in a long time, my friend. Hope you are doing well.

To the OP, Newbie2 is precisely the kind of person whose brain you might want to pick.
He's done some "swimming" in both the Elbe and the Tiber.

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
Chemnitz
  #5  
Old Jul 18, '11, 3:08 pm
Newbie2 Newbie2 is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Haven't seen you in a long time, my friend. Hope you are doing well.

To the OP, Newbie2 is precisely the kind of person whose brain you might want to pick.
He's done some "swimming" in both the Elbe and the Tiber.

Jon
Bathed in the Elbe and rinsed in the Tiber.
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  #6  
Old Jul 18, '11, 3:17 pm
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Bathed in the Elbe and rinsed in the Tiber.
lol. I've often said that if I ever swam the Tiber, I'd credit Martin Luther for the swimming lessons.

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
Chemnitz
  #7  
Old Jul 18, '11, 4:10 pm
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Shannon Moore View Post
I have a friend who was wondering what the differences are. Since he and I are both Catholic, we don't really know what the differences are. Any help is most welcome!
Well, I don't have much time, so I'll keep it short. Justification really isn't that big a deal anymore, so we have that out of the way. The big issues are the authority of the church, pope and the bishops, the role of the saints, and purgatory. I'd say that the authority of the church is the biggest difference, because once there is no disagreement about that, you can agree with the rest. the Eucharistic theology and Justification theology are (very slightly, or even the same depending on if the Lutheran is LWF or a confessional branch) different. But Lutheranism and Catholicism are very similar.

God bless.
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*I converted to Catholicism on the Easter Vigil on 3/30/13. Some posts may contain information that I believe is incorrect or was poorly understood. Usually someone else is a better source for a Catholic voice.
  #8  
Old Jul 18, '11, 9:08 pm
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hn160 hn160 is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Swiss Guy View Post
Well, I don't have much time, so I'll keep it short. Justification really isn't that big a deal anymore, so we have that out of the way. The big issues are the authority of the church, pope and the bishops, the role of the saints, and purgatory. I'd say that the authority of the church is the biggest difference, because once there is no disagreement about that, you can agree with the rest. the Eucharistic theology and Justification theology are (very slightly, or even the same depending on if the Lutheran is LWF or a confessional branch) different. But Lutheranism and Catholicism are very similar.

God bless.
If the Catholic Church would talk to the confessional Lutherans and come to agreement them on Justification that would be better than the one that they have with the LWF. Besides how could any agreement come in total with the LWF when they endorse women ordination, homosexual ordination and gay marriage? I believe that the LWF - Catholic talks are a waste of time.
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Old Jul 18, '11, 10:51 pm
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by hn160 View Post
If the Catholic Church would talk to the confessional Lutherans and come to agreement them on Justification that would be better than the one that they have with the LWF. Besides how could any agreement come in total with the LWF when they endorse women ordination, homosexual ordination and gay marriage? I believe that the LWF - Catholic talks are a waste of time.
As I understand the situation, the confessional Lutherans aren't interested in any dialog with the Catholic Church.

Aren't 66% of Lutherans in the LWF? So I read at their website.
  #10  
Old Jul 19, '11, 6:21 am
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by hn160 View Post
If the Catholic Church would talk to the confessional Lutherans and come to agreement them on Justification that would be better than the one that they have with the LWF. Besides how could any agreement come in total with the LWF when they endorse women ordination, homosexual ordination and gay marriage? I believe that the LWF - Catholic talks are a waste of time.
Hi hn,
One of the issues I have with our synod is that we participate in national talks with the USCCB, but regularly seem reluctant to sign on to the ending documents, even with clarifiaction additions, such as Rome did with the JDDJ.

While I 100% agree with you regarding the ELCA's drift from the confessions and scripture regarding ordination, and that this applies to other member bodies of the LWF (but not all), I wouldn't say the talks they have had are a waste of time. In fact, there have been many fruitful results of them. The before mentioned JDDJ, the recently released "The Hope of Eternal Life" seems like an excellent document, "The Church as Koinonia" is an excellent document.

If I were looking at it from Jim Dandy's POV, I'd probably come to the same conclusion about confessional Lutherans - they're not interested. OTOH, dialogue between Rome and liberal Lutherans can only go so far for the reasons already mentioned. So, for substantive future progress to occur, it is folks like us - LCMS - who need to step up.
And it can be done. The ALCC is not an offspring of the ELCA. It is an outgrowth of the LCMS.

As the old saying goes, "Only Nixon could go to China".

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
Chemnitz
  #11  
Old Jul 19, '11, 7:29 am
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Jim Dandy View Post
As I understand the situation, the confessional Lutherans aren't interested in any dialog with the Catholic Church.

Aren't 66% of Lutherans in the LWF? So I read at their website.
I thought it was something like 90% worldwide (although 66% seems about right for the U.S).
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*I converted to Catholicism on the Easter Vigil on 3/30/13. Some posts may contain information that I believe is incorrect or was poorly understood. Usually someone else is a better source for a Catholic voice.
  #12  
Old Jul 20, '11, 8:56 am
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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Originally Posted by Swiss Guy View Post
I thought it was something like 90% worldwide (although 66% seems about right for the U.S).
This time I couldn't find the percentage of Lutherans represented in the LWF, but I did find this:

QUOTE
The Lutheran World Federation (LWF) is a global communion of Christian churches in the Lutheran tradition. Founded in 1947 in Lund, Sweden, the LWF now has 145 member churches in 79 countries all over the world representing over 70 million Christians.
END QUOTE
  #13  
Old Jul 20, '11, 11:31 am
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Dandy View Post
This time I couldn't find the percentage of Lutherans represented in the LWF, but I did find this:

QUOTE
The Lutheran World Federation (LWF) is a global communion of Christian churches in the Lutheran tradition. Founded in 1947 in Lund, Sweden, the LWF now has 145 member churches in 79 countries all over the world representing over 70 million Christians.
END QUOTE
As of 2009, there seems to be about 72 million Lutherans worldwide, with about 68 million in the LWF - http://www.lutheranworld.org/News/LWI/EN/2326.EN.html. It's 2 years old, but it gives you the basic idea
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*I converted to Catholicism on the Easter Vigil on 3/30/13. Some posts may contain information that I believe is incorrect or was poorly understood. Usually someone else is a better source for a Catholic voice.
  #14  
Old Jul 20, '11, 3:17 pm
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hn160 hn160 is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

I have a question, suppose the LWF and the Roman Catholics were to come to agreement on all the major issues, would the Catholics accept Lutheran women pastors and non-celibate homosexual pastors?
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Old Jul 20, '11, 3:22 pm
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: The Differences Between Lutheranism and Catholicism?

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I have a question, suppose the LWF and the Roman Catholics were to come to agreement on all the major issues, would the Catholics accept Lutheran women pastors and non-celibate homosexual pastors?
No, because of theological reasons that someone smarting than me can explain, and because the CC doesn't change theology - the LWF changes/loses theology depending upon who they are in an ecumenical dialogue with so that there can be an agreement (like the JDDJ, although the majority of Lutherans didn't change their theology since it was so vague).

So the LWF could pretty much say they believed in any theological thing because pretty much the only thing required to believe is the Trinity, and Jesus Christ's Incarnation and Resurrection.
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