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  #1  
Old Jul 30, '11, 8:33 am
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Excelency Excelency is offline
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Default Another protestant attack?

I found this site recently and the topic offends me. I have only found one other site with such information but I simply cannot believe this is true. The depths some protestants will plunge to in their hatred of the Church is well known but this is just a bit over the top. Please, somebody refute this abomination.

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/why...uld_marry.html
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  #2  
Old Jul 30, '11, 9:59 am
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Of course it isn't true. This is some remote little self proclaimed ministry in Texas druming up business of hate. How did you even find the site?
You can't defend against this so just go about your business. Stuff has been said for hundreds of years. Heard similiar things 40 years ago. Thing is the people saying it never met a nun or a priest. I told them if they knew the nuns and priests in my school, they'd realize how ridiculous these accusations were.
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  #3  
Old Jul 30, '11, 10:10 am
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JohnMPhilomena JohnMPhilomena is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Preposterous and twisted.
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  #4  
Old Jul 30, '11, 10:10 am
babylonsfalling babylonsfalling is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelency View Post
I found this site recently and the topic offends me. I have only found one other site with such information but I simply cannot believe this is true. The depths some protestants will plunge to in their hatred of the Church is well known but this is just a bit over the top. Please, somebody refute this abomination.

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/why...uld_marry.html
Why refute it?
This is pure, bigoted anti Catholicism. People reject this stuff because it's bigoted nature is extremely self evident. People who post this stuff prove themselves to be bigots in their own posting and Catholicism ends up looking better in a default kind of way. These guys are self defeating, but obviously too ignorant to realize it.
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  #5  
Old Jul 30, '11, 10:25 am
Defender1 Defender1 is offline
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Smile Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelency View Post
I found this site recently and the topic offends me. I have only found one other site with such information but I simply cannot believe this is true. The depths some protestants will plunge to in their hatred of the Church is well known but this is just a bit over the top. Please, somebody refute this abomination.

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/why...uld_marry.html
I have taken a gander at this , and while many are claiming that priests molest kids and From what I see Nuns (statistics I am not sure of and certainly wont rely on that site) Many people do not realize that in all of the 48000 protestant denominations (number growing every 7 days ) this happens and they are married . SO the whole unwed argument does not work . If your mentally ill and a child molester or sex predator of any kind it does not matter if your a priest ,preacher or youth minister , your gonna find a way to molest . Now let me cite some verses that condone and even promote unmarried priests and nuns .

Many protestants love to preach on Paul's teachings . The problem is that they pick and choose what to read and most of the time rely on preacher commentary .Well here is a direct group of verses from the book of 1Corinthians 7:32-35
"I should like you to be free of all of the anxieties, an unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord,how he may please the Lord.But a married man is anxious about the things of the world ,how he may please his wife , he is divided . An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord .so that she may be holy in both body and spirit A married woman on the other hand is anxious about the things of the world ,how she may please her husband . I am telling you this for your own benefit ,not to impose a restrain upon you ,but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord ,without distraction . " Paul is giving advice , and we saw that he practiced what he preached as well . He was not married and he was anxious about the things of the Lord.

Many protestants will come back with a verse from Paul on how it says (in their own private interpretation) how a Bishop must be married . Lets take a look: 1Timothy 3:2-3

" A Bishop must be irreproachable MARRIED ONLY ONCE ,temperate ,self controlled ,decent,hospitable, able to teach ....."
Obviously Paul did not write contradiction . Protestants will use this verse to argue that Priests should be allowed to marry . Notice has it says that a Bishop must be married only once . In other words Paul meant that if a Bishop was to marry he is only to be married one time . . Not that he must be married .

But all misunderstanding on their part should be cleared up with direct words from Christ of course lets take a look at Matthew 19:12 (Christ was not married either by the way)
"Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so ;some because they were made so by others ;some because they have renounced marriage for the kingdom of heaven ,whoever can accept this aught to accept it " .

This I believe would be a good response . However I must admit that I only read a few paragraphs (that is all I could stomach today )Did not want to ruin my day with such nonsense . The Protestants who argue this would learn from this response however the atheists you would probably have to take another root .You could point out to them that this occurs in all of the protestant denominations as well and provide statistics you could find with the click of a mouse of course .BUt then again they may come back with an anti Christian remark ."See how evil Christians are,a GOd would not allow this if he existed "
Thats when a whole new can of worms is opened . But many of the atheists are aware of the ongoing molestations going on in other churches today but attack us because we are the biggest fish in the sea .But remember Christ said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his church.With all of the media attacks we stand strong . Just as we stood strong for 2000 years .
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  #6  
Old Jul 30, '11, 10:40 am
eegardner eegardner is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

There are some people that you can never convince that they are wrong. But we know the creators of this site are wrong.
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  #7  
Old Jul 30, '11, 11:38 am
babylonsfalling babylonsfalling is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eegardner View Post
There are some people that you can never convince that they are wrong. But we know the creators of this site are wrong.
There are also folks who have just made their own little religion out of automatically bashing anything Catholic.

I know from experience that many of these folk are just ex Catholics.
Some are bigots who gravitated to Catholic bashing for bigoted reasons.
Are few are taught anti Catholicism and may be innocently ignorant but it's really kind of doubtful since genuinely truthful information is so easily available. How much easier can be than to just ask a Catholic neighbor about this stuff or send and email to a priest or just make a phone call. When they refuse to verify what they hear by speaking to actual Catholics, even innocent ignorance becomes REALLY questionable.
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  #8  
Old Jul 30, '11, 11:59 am
eegardner eegardner is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babylonsfalling View Post
There are also folks who have just made their own little religion out of automatically bashing anything Catholic.

I know from experience that many of these folk are just ex Catholics.
Some are bigots who gravitated to Catholic bashing for bigoted reasons.
Are few are taught anti Catholicism and may be innocently ignorant but it's really kind of doubtful since genuinely truthful information is so easily available. How much easier can be than to just ask a Catholic neighbor about this stuff or send and email to a priest or just make a phone call. When they refuse to verify what they hear by speaking to actual Catholics, even innocent ignorance becomes REALLY questionable.
The ex Catholics make these statements because they were not properly formed in their faith. It could be because of their own lack of interest during formation or because they learned from others that were not properly formed. This is a very widespread problem.

Many anti-Catholics know how to use the Bible to support their views by taking verses out of context and making them seem to say what they want them to say. Some of them actually believe what they teach. If a Catholic is not strong in their faith they are at a risk of being misled by these people. They have taken many Catholics with their ability to quickly quote chapter and verse. Many have one goal... convert Catholics. You are correct many were taught this and really believe it. They refuse to verify because they do not believe they are wrong. Through the years in our RCIA class I have encountered many that were misguided but did choose to verify. Most are now Catholic because we taught them the truth.
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  #9  
Old Jul 30, '11, 12:04 pm
babylonsfalling babylonsfalling is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eegardner View Post
The ex Catholics make these statements because they were not properly formed in their faith. It could be because of their own lack of interest during formation or because they learned from others that were not properly formed. This is a very widespread problem.

Many anti-Catholics know how to use the Bible to support their views by taking verses out of context and making them seem to say what they want them to say. Some of them actually believe what they teach. If a Catholic is not strong in their faith they are at a risk of being misled by these people. They have taken many Catholics with their ability to quickly quote chapter and verse. Many have one goal... convert Catholics. You are correct many were taught this and really believe it. They refuse to verify because they do not believe they are wrong. Through the years in our RCIA class I have encountered many that were misguided but did choose to verify. Most are now Catholic because we taught them the truth.
I've had ex Catholics telling me that the Catholic Church doesn't even teach that Christ rose from the dead.
When I hear that, I know it's not a matter of "improperly formed"....it's an intentional lie, not an accidental untruth.
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  #10  
Old Jul 30, '11, 12:18 pm
eegardner eegardner is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babylonsfalling View Post
I've had ex Catholics telling me that the Catholic Church doesn't even teach that Christ rose from the dead.
When I hear that, I know it's not a matter of "improperly formed"....it's an intentional lie, not an accidental untruth.
Wow! That is very bad, that a former Catholic would say that. If they went to even one Mass they would know better. I agree, that they would say that would be a lie.
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  #11  
Old Jul 30, '11, 11:56 pm
Singapore Nick Singapore Nick is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

am glad that technology have made catholic apologetic materials online and unlike in those era (before computers, internet) where we were "mute" and helpless when facing fundamentalist groups.
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  #12  
Old Jul 31, '11, 5:02 am
Aboveallbereal Aboveallbereal is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

The Black Legend is part of Protestant European and consequently American Culture. Has been for centuries, remains so and will remaon so.

The vast majority of sexual abuse of children in the west is done by non churchgoing sexually active men.
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  #13  
Old Jul 31, '11, 7:03 am
PiousTemplar PiousTemplar is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

I found it quite dangerous the fact that it has various anti-catholic documents that claim to be written by various ex-priests....

One of them is Charles Chiniquy, who I quickly wiki'd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy

Read the article about him, seems like he got a bit upset after the clash with the bishop.

Quote:
Charles Chiniquy clashed with the Bishop of Chicago, Anthony O'Regan, over the bishop’s treatment of Catholics in Chicago, particularly French Canadians. He declared that O’Regan was secretly backing Spink's suit against him. Chiniquy stated that in 1856 O’Regan threatened him with excommunication if he didn’t go to a new location where the bishop wanted him. Several months later the New York Times published a pastoral letter from Bishop O’Regan in which O’Regan stated that he had suspended Charles Chiniquy and since the priest had continued in his normal duties as a priest, the bishop excommunicated him by his letter. Chiniquy vigorously disputed that he had been excommunicated, saying publicly that the Bishop was mistaken. Chiniquy left the Church in 1858. [4] He claimed that the Catholic Church is pagan, that Roman Catholics worship the Virgin Mary, that its theology spoils the Gospel and that its theology is anti-Christian. He also claimed that the Vatican had planned to take over the United States by importing Catholic immigrants from Ireland, Germany and France.
How did the guy even become a Catholic Priest in the first place? Could he of had some sort of emotional tragedy happen?
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  #14  
Old Jul 31, '11, 7:56 am
babylonsfalling babylonsfalling is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PiousTemplar View Post
I found it quite dangerous the fact that it has various anti-catholic documents that claim to be written by various ex-priests....

One of them is Charles Chiniquy, who I quickly wiki'd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chiniquy

Read the article about him, seems like he got a bit upset after the clash with the bishop.

Quote:
Charles Chiniquy clashed with the Bishop of Chicago, Anthony O'Regan, over the bishop’s treatment of Catholics in Chicago, particularly French Canadians. He declared that O’Regan was secretly backing Spink's suit against him. Chiniquy stated that in 1856 O’Regan threatened him with excommunication if he didn’t go to a new location where the bishop wanted him. Several months later the New York Times published a pastoral letter from Bishop O’Regan in which O’Regan stated that he had suspended Charles Chiniquy and since the priest had continued in his normal duties as a priest, the bishop excommunicated him by his letter. Chiniquy vigorously disputed that he had been excommunicated, saying publicly that the Bishop was mistaken. Chiniquy left the Church in 1858. [4] He claimed that the Catholic Church is pagan, that Roman Catholics worship the Virgin Mary,<--This is how when I know I'm listening to an intentional liar. that its theology spoils the Gospel and that its theology is anti-Christian. He also claimed that the Vatican had planned to take over the United States by importing Catholic immigrants from Ireland, Germany and France.
How did the guy even become a Catholic Priest in the first place? Could he of had some sort of emotional tragedy happen?
When I start hearing accusations of Mary worship from someone who's spent time in Catholicism, it's another case of knowing that I'm dealing with a liar.

A Catholic may think other Catholics make too much fuss of Mary, they may think it's not necessary to pray to her at all, but when I hear about worshiping Mary from someone who's been in the Catholic Church, it's another case of knowing that I'm dealing with an intentional liar, rather than someone who's just mixed up, ignorant and incorrect.

Maybe a non Catholic could make that mistake and only then if they refuse to look into the matter by asking a Catholic, doing 5 minutes research online, making a phone call to a local Catholic Church to just ask, etc.

It's different coming from an ex Catholic though because anyone who's spent time in the Catholic Church knows better by their own experience and can't even use the excuse of ignorance. As an active Catholic or former Catholic, a person knows they didn't worship Mary because it's just not perceived that way in the Church. It's not that Catholics are taught to NOT worship Mary either because it's not an issue in the first place. Catholics are just raised knowing that God alone is worthy of worship and by default that leaves Mary out. Catholics don't even hear about Mary worship from Catholic sources, that garbage is ALL coming from non Catholic sources. An ex Catholic who makes the "Mary worship" accusation is intentionally ignoring what he knows in his heart and embracing non Catholic, bigoted interpretations of Catholic practices.

When you hear an ex Catholic making the worship Mary accusation, you know you're dealing with a liar who's repeating things about the Church which he knows aren't true in order to justify his departure. You can also presume this person isn't "right in their own head" because if they were, they wouldn't need to degenerate to such behavior anyway.

It's really not much different than a petulant, runaway child making up lies about his parents to justify his running away from home.
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  #15  
Old Jul 31, '11, 8:23 am
babylonsfalling babylonsfalling is offline
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Default Re: Another protestant attack?

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Originally Posted by Singapore Nick View Post
am glad that technology have made catholic apologetic materials online and unlike in those era (before computers, internet) where we were "mute" and helpless when facing fundamentalist groups.
I think it's a mixed bag because anti Catholics were just as cyber-mute as Catholics before the internet. Nowadays anti Catholics can use the web to attack and Catholics can use the web to defend, but that's not really an improvement, it's an equal balance.

What I DO think is good is that now the fight is in a public venue where everyone can see. Plus people seem to let their true colors shine through on the web. In face to face confrontations before the web, anti Catholics were decent and polite. On the web it's not like that, their nastiness and bigotry shows through and when juxtaposed against whatever Catholic they're arguing with, the Catholic looks better by default, which in turn reflects onto the Catholic faith positively. The web helps defeat anti Catholicism by making the disposition of anti Catholics so public.

Nobody witnesses anti Catholic behavior on the web and walks away thinking, "gee, I sure would like to be more like that anti Catholic guy"
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