From your experence why does NFP feel better than contraception?

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by Bookcat

...meaningless and objectively selfish..and indeed non marital.

No.... It isn't that way for us, and we are not selfish. Also, it HELPED our marriage.

[Bookcat]

Originally Posted by Debora123

No.... It isn't that way for us, and we are not selfish. Also, it HELPED our marriage.

Objectively ..actually it is. Even if you do not recognize it.
and objectively it has not helped your marriage or any marriage..it is by nature objective contrary to marital love.

[ahs]

Originally Posted by Debora123

No.... It isn't that way for us, and we are not selfish.

WHAT?! But, Debora123, you are a Catholic...and the Church is very clear that (and gives clear explanations in the CCC and in several encyclicals as to why) contraception is a grave evil...intrinsically immoral and a selfish act, regardless of how it "feels".

Do you, as a Catholic, really disagree with the Church's teaching on this? Then how would you be any different than a Protestant? (Nothing against Protestants...it just hurts me to see a Catholic not wanting to be Catholic.)

[Bookcat]

A wonderful article by an expert on marriage (in addition to books on it..he served on the Roman Rota court..which looks into marriages).

http://www.cormacburke.or.ke/node/282

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by Bookcat

Objectively ..actually it is. Even if you do not recognize it.
and objectively it has not helped your marriage or any marriage..it is by nature objective contrary to marital love.

Mmmm... no, you can't be selfish in this case without recognizing it. We don't have sex out of selfishness for ourselves, and neither can you or anyone besides God claim to know what is in my heart and in my intentions.

And yes, it DID help out marriage. I don't know about others, but it did for us.

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by ahs

WHAT?! But, Debora123, you are a Catholic...and the Church is very clear that (and gives clear explanations in the CCC and in several encyclicals as to why) contraception is a grave evil...intrinsically immoral and a selfish act, regardless of how it "feels".

Do you, as a Catholic, really disagree with the Church's teaching on this? Then how would you be any different than a Protestant? (Nothing against Protestants...it just hurts me to see a Catholic not wanting to be Catholic.)

Yes, I do disagree with this, as do most Catholics. I am different from a protestant in every other way. Contraception is not the single only teaching of the Catholic Church.

[Bookcat]

Originally Posted by Debora123

Mmmm... no, you can't be selfish in this case without recognizing it. We don't have sex out of selfishness for ourselves, and neither can you or anyone besides God claim to know what is in my heart and in my intentions.

And yes, it DID help out marriage. I don't know about others, but it did for us.

Yes one can be. Such is objectively so. Intentions has nothing to do with it. Intentions can not make an objectively gravely evil act into a good act. Or a non-marital act (it is not a martial act due to the contraception) into a marital act.

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by Bookcat

Yes one can be. Such is objectively so. Intentions has nothing to do with it. Intentions can not make an objectively gravely evil act into a good act. Or a non-marital act (it is not a martial act due to the contraception) into a marital act.

Well I respectfully disagree with your claim that my husband and I are being selfish in bed.

[Katie966]

Originally Posted by Muze

You're in direct contrast to waht Paul is saying. The command is no not deny, and the exception is by mutual consent. So, even voluntary denial is still denial.

I'm not understanding you. Isn't NFP a form of mutual consent?

[Bookcat]

Originally Posted by Debora123

Well I respectfully disagree with your claim that my husband and I are being selfish in bed.

Objectively ...contraceptive acts by anyone who is married are both non-marital and selfish and gravely disordered...such is the nature (aside from any intent).

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by Bookcat

Objectively ...contraceptive acts by anyone who is married are both non-marital and selfish and gravely disordered...such is the nature (aside from any intent).

[Muze]

Originally Posted by Katie966

I'm not understanding you. Isn't NFP a form of mutual consent?

It is.. but Paul says by mutual consent for a time for a period of prayer. There are three qualifies there that all must be present.

NFP isn't mutual consent for a period of prayer.

[Odell]

Originally Posted by Debora123

Blacksword, the part I have bolded here is EXACTLY what happened with my husband and I, amongst other things as well. I couldn't have said it better myself. While it works great for some people, (which is wonderful, and I envy those people) it just didn't feel right for us. It put pressure on our lovemaking, and ultimately stress on our marriage.

Pressure on lovemaking or pressure on one spouse who wants sensual enjoyment when ever he or she can have it?

Lovemaking and pleasure are good however mere pleasure, and enjoyment is not a good which binds and unites people for long. You yourself said it put stress on your marriage when the lovemaking wasn't there. When mutual love depends merely on pleasure or self interest, it will be tied together just as long as they remain the source of pleasure or profit to each other. The moment it comes to an end, the real reason for their love will also end, and the illusion of reciprocity will burst like a bubble.

[Bookcat]

Originally Posted by Debora123

[Debora123]

Originally Posted by Bookcat

We peacefully agree to disagree. In the mean time I would appreciate it if people stopped telling me that I am being selfish. Thank you.