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  #1  
Old Aug 15, '11, 7:01 am
CompSciGuy CompSciGuy is offline
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Default Divine liturgy guide?

Ok I know this has probably been asked a bajazillion times but I couldn't find the answer in the sticky threads and I don't really know what to search for.. but is there some sort of a "guide" online that can teach you the byzantine catholic divine liturgy? I'd like to attend one but I have no idea what to expect and I'd like to be able to participate rather than just standing there with my eyes glazed over.
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  #2  
Old Aug 15, '11, 7:10 am
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Well, you do have to be "just standing there". Just follow what everyone else is doing. Make a sign of the cross every time God is mentioned including when the Trinity is named. Try to follow along the hymns. You mostly have to say "Lord have mercy".
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  #3  
Old Aug 15, '11, 8:19 am
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompSciGuy View Post
Ok I know this has probably been asked a bajazillion times but I couldn't find the answer in the sticky threads and I don't really know what to search for.. but is there some sort of a "guide" online that can teach you the byzantine catholic divine liturgy? I'd like to attend one but I have no idea what to expect and I'd like to be able to participate rather than just standing there with my eyes glazed over.
Here is a link to the Melkite translation of the Divine Liturgy: http://melkite.org/Dliturgy.htm. This is the Byzantine Liturgy, but not that used by the "Byzantine Catholic Church." The Byzantine Catholic Church is actually the Ruthenian Catholic Church. They use the same Liturgy as the Melkites, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians, etc., but have their own translation/recension. But the linked text and the PDF will give you a good idea of what's going on. As far as when to sit, stand, cross oneself, etc. it varies from parish to parish and from person to person. Some people, depending on health and strength, will sit through the whole Liturgy, some will stand. Some people will cross themselves at almost every turn of the corner, and others won't. The best thing to do is go to a parish, observe and imitate. As Constantine said, whenever a Trinitarian formulation is exclaimed it is most likely that everyone will make the sign of the Cross. Kneeling usually doesn't occur except in Latinized parishes or by Latinized individuals. I remember attending a parish where an elderly lady used to kneel during the "Words of Institution." No one else in the parish did so. There is a devout gentleman in my own parish who genuflects. Although this is not part of the Byzantine tradition it is a sign of his own personal devotion.

Anyhow, point is go and check it out. There really is nothing that can prepare you as well as standing there attentively and participating, and then doing it all over again next week, and the week after, and the week after...
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  #4  
Old Aug 15, '11, 9:09 am
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Guide for Divine Liturgy, eh? Simple- your eyes and ears!
Just observe what others are doing and when. Listen carefully to the various litanies, prayers, and hymns. I can almost guarantee that after 3 (that's right- only 3!) Liturgies you'll have it pretty much down.
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  #5  
Old Aug 15, '11, 9:12 am
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompSciGuy View Post
Ok I know this has probably been asked a bajazillion times but I couldn't find the answer in the sticky threads and I don't really know what to search for.. but is there some sort of a "guide" online that can teach you the byzantine catholic divine liturgy? I'd like to attend one but I have no idea what to expect and I'd like to be able to participate rather than just standing there with my eyes glazed over.
When going to a DL for the first time it is usually best to go and just stand there with your eyes glazed over. Read the DL beforehand if you must but DO NOT go to a DL and have your nose stuck in a book......you will miss out on so much.
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  #6  
Old Aug 15, '11, 10:13 am
Symeon Symeon is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Also take a look at this
"12 things I wish I'd known (first visit to orthodox divine liturgy).
http://www.frederica.com/12-things/

Much of what's in there will also apply to a Byzantine Catholic DL - though there will be variations depending on which particular church you visit.
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  #7  
Old Aug 15, '11, 10:13 am
The Idiot The Idiot is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

CompSciGuy

Have a look at this Site http://www.saintelias.com/ca/home/

LOTS of information for you there
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  #8  
Old Aug 15, '11, 4:25 pm
5Loaves 5Loaves is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Others have covered it, except to say please come back and tell us how it went. People come here, ask this question, and get pages of feedback, and then we never hear from them about whether they went and what it was like for them.
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  #9  
Old Aug 15, '11, 5:52 pm
Wesley7 Wesley7 is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Have the small liturgical prayer book. <><
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  #10  
Old Aug 15, '11, 6:33 pm
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TrueLight TrueLight is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

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Originally Posted by Wesley7 View Post
Have the small liturgical prayer book. <><
When I visited the OCA, I asked for a guide book and I was given one!

Most of the liturgy was in English. Imagine me trying to sing along....softly.

But the music was so beautiful I had to try.

I figured out that the sign of the cross was made at each mention of the trinity, so I just followed along.

Is there a guide book for Great Vespers? I plan on attending one within the next two weeks.
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  #11  
Old Aug 15, '11, 9:15 pm
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Vico Vico is online now
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompSciGuy View Post
Ok I know this has probably been asked a bajazillion times but I couldn't find the answer in the sticky threads and I don't really know what to search for.. but is there some sort of a "guide" online that can teach you the byzantine catholic divine liturgy? I'd like to attend one but I have no idea what to expect and I'd like to be able to participate rather than just standing there with my eyes glazed over.
There are various bows (with or without sign of the cross made either before or after the bow):

Sign of cross without inclination of head
Bow of the head without sign of the cross
Reverence: inclination of head and shoulders to the celebrating priest
Small bow: the sign of the cross with slight head inclination, no hand to knees or ground
Profound adoration: hand down - twice during consecration
Great bow: to the ground -- Presanctified only
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  #12  
Old Aug 15, '11, 9:58 pm
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
There are various bows (with or without sign of the cross made either before or after the bow):

Sign of cross without inclination of head
Bow of the head without sign of the cross
Reverence: inclination of head and shoulders to the celebrating priest
Small bow: the sign of the cross with slight head inclination, no hand to knees or ground
Profound adoration: hand down - twice during consecration
Great bow: to the ground -- Presanctified only
Why would you say this is only during the pre sanctified Liturgy? It is done quite often.......just not on Sundays. After the Epiclisis, today when venerating the shroud of the Theotokos, when entering or leaving the church on weekdays......and many more........Bow to the ground....it's not just for pre sanctified.
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  #13  
Old Aug 15, '11, 10:33 pm
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Vico Vico is online now
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciero View Post
Why would you say this is only during the pre sanctified Liturgy? It is done quite often.......just not on Sundays. After the Epiclisis, today when venerating the shroud of the Theotokos, when entering or leaving the church on weekdays......and many more........Bow to the ground....it's not just for pre sanctified.
Not universally, and I am referring to Divine Liturgy rubrics, at least the Ruthenian recension (from before Nikon). Actual practice varies nowadays among Ruthenian as everything is mixed up. The bow to the ground is penitential so particularly appropriate for Lent.
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  #14  
Old Aug 15, '11, 10:40 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompSciGuy View Post
Ok I know this has probably been asked a bajazillion times but I couldn't find the answer in the sticky threads and I don't really know what to search for.. but is there some sort of a "guide" online that can teach you the byzantine catholic divine liturgy? I'd like to attend one but I have no idea what to expect and I'd like to be able to participate rather than just standing there with my eyes glazed over.
Go. Participate. There are guides there. It is the liturgy of John Chrysostom. You probably can find that on YouTube, although this is not the only liturgy used. It is most common.

Tell someone you want to learn. Join the Choir. You will be singing lots. You will be moving your body, signing right to left and bowing. When you sign put your thumb to your long and ring finger, fold your small and ring to remind you of the trinity and the two folded that Jesus was God/man. You will hear, the doors, wisdom be attentive, the Word and the Eucharist will leave the altar and be walked around the community, there is incense. The deacon is awesome. Communion is bread/wine in a spoon. You will look around and see stories from the bible portrayed in art, Fathers of the Church, Icons, you will understand and see what it is like to be surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. You will see Mary and see that the Center of Worship is Christ. The icons have meaning and you might ask what they mean. There is nothing but involvement and no one will judge you. Just keep coming back.

I do not know where you live however see if you can find Melkite, Syrian, Chaldean, and other Eastern Churches in your area. The Chaldeans are Nestorians of the past. They will have no icons. Attend all of them. The Byzantine in my area have a fish fry every friday during lent. The Churches usually have food that is made like Halupki and Peroghi. Many of the Churches have it frozen so you can buy it and take it home. It is the best.
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  #15  
Old Aug 16, '11, 12:36 am
5Loaves 5Loaves is offline
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Default Re: Divine liturgy guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueLight View Post
When I visited the OCA, I asked for a guide book and I was given one!

Most of the liturgy was in English. Imagine me trying to sing along....softly.

But the music was so beautiful I had to try.

I figured out that the sign of the cross was made at each mention of the trinity, so I just followed along.

Is there a guide book for Great Vespers? I plan on attending one within the next two weeks.
Some resurces:
Wikipedia
Orthodoxwiki
St. Elias UGCC
OCA

The OCA is currently revamping their site, and it keeps changing. I can't really find stuff I used to find easily, but I assume they do still have texts and music both there that you can download.

The Dept of Religious Ed of the OCA has a whole series of 4" X 6" booklets on various services, but I don't think they have one for the routine Sat. night Vespers. You can see them here on the SVS Press site. Scroll down and see "The Bridegroom Services of Holy Week". They all look like that, each service booklet is a different color on the body and a white strip at the top with the title printed there. The OCA parish you went to might have them in their bookstore.

I've already put out my prejudice here many times. If you want to look up the service ahead of time to get a general idea, great, and even look at the Troparia and Kontakia for the day. But I'm against using a service book in the DL or services. I think it is much richer to just listen, join in when you can on the many repetitions, and keep your eyes up, not on a printed page. I was in the Paraklisis service at the Greek Orthodox Cathedral here on Friday and more than 50% was in Greek, untranslated. They had printed out the text, English on the left , Greek on the right, on 8X10 paper. I picked up a copy and looked at it for about 30 seconds. This Cathedral has only a very "simple" iconostatis and then the traditional Christ Pantocrator on the ceiling and the 12 apostles circling him. So there isn't much to look at in terms of iconography. Still I was happy to let the praying in Greek wash over me. Part of the time whenever I'm at that parish for these services, with the literally 5 other people who turn up... I just pull my chotki off my wrist and pray the Jesus Prayer for a while. I do know I missed a lot of really beautiful language by not checking out the English translation, tho sometimes the Greek's translations leave something to be desired... There were chunks in Slavonic last night as usual which I didn't know what was being prayed. 99% was in English there, OCA, and the 1% in Slavonic I adore hearing.
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