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  #1  
Old Aug 20, '11, 2:38 pm
mathematoons mathematoons is offline
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Default Why does the Church allow bad priests?

My priest (Fr. Matz) is mentioned by name in this article, which I found last night:

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/news...e-c350e12beb0d

I found out last week that he's leaving the Church to spend all his time in this pro-GLBT ministry mentioned in the article. It really hurt, because he was my first priest, the one who inspired us to go into the Church after many years as "cultural Catholics." My mom and I are the only ones in the parish who are upset at him for this (everyone else there is so liberal it makes us sick), so we're changing parishes. I just met this really nice conservative priest (who has already been more helpful than this other priest ever was) at another parish, so I'm going to that parish's Mass tomorrow.

Is there anyone else here who would be this upset if their priest were doing this? Please tell me I'm not the only one who wants a priest who won't support sodomy. It's not that I hate gays (God loves everyone, after all), it's just that most of the ones I've met hate Christianity (and even the ones who call themselves Christian only accept the teachings selectively and hate orthodoxy) with as much passion as any Nazi or Communist.

What do you all think?
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  #2  
Old Aug 20, '11, 3:31 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

in answer to thread title, the priest is leaving the priesthood, and no doubt if he did not first do this on his own would soon be ousted by his bishop or referred to the Vatican for that action, so why do you say that the Church "allows" bad priests?
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  #3  
Old Aug 20, '11, 3:49 pm
Dakota Roberts Dakota Roberts is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathematoons View Post
My priest (Fr. Matz) is mentioned by name in this article, which I found last night:

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/news...e-c350e12beb0d

I found out last week that he's leaving the Church to spend all his time in this pro-GLBT ministry mentioned in the article. It really hurt, because he was my first priest, the one who inspired us to go into the Church after many years as "cultural Catholics." My mom and I are the only ones in the parish who are upset at him for this (everyone else there is so liberal it makes us sick), so we're changing parishes. I just met this really nice conservative priest (who has already been more helpful than this other priest ever was) at another parish, so I'm going to that parish's Mass tomorrow.

Is there anyone else here who would be this upset if their priest were doing this? Please tell me I'm not the only one who wants a priest who won't support sodomy. It's not that I hate gays (God loves everyone, after all), it's just that most of the ones I've met hate Christianity (and even the ones who call themselves Christian only accept the teachings selectively and hate orthodoxy) with as much passion as any Nazi or Communist.

What do you all think?
Very sad, you have my condolences. (I'm in the Sacramento diocese at the very southern tip)
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  #4  
Old Aug 20, '11, 4:16 pm
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Trishie Trishie is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

Why?...Jesus also had to cope with the sorrow of a candidate for priesthood, a chosen one who turned out to be a thief and a betrayer. The sorrow of any priest who betrays God, and God's people is also God's.
As a priest once wrote to me when I was lamenting the abandonment of the priesthood by one of his brother-priests: "Free-will is a two-edged sword pointed directly at the heart of God".
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JESUS who died once for all persons
who gives Yourself wholly in Communion to billions throughout time
please pray in me for every person
as if each person is the only loved one.
JESUS please welcome each person with love, healing, and great joy!
Thank You JESUS


Mother Mary at the wedding feast of Cana (John 2:1-12)
though JESUS protested it was not yet time for miracles
you successfully interceded with Him for a family's temporal need
please now intercede with your divine Son
for each person's temporal and spiritual needs.
Thank you Mother


JESUS please grant our prayer for this person


Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
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  #5  
Old Aug 20, '11, 5:27 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

I had a similar experience, when my first priest (who also had taken a vow of chastity with his religious order), who ran my RCIA, heard my first confession, gave me first communion and confirmation, led the World Youth Day trip I went on, etc. left his priestly and religious vocations to marry his former secretary. He also had been a supporter of homosexuality including homosexual marriage, among other problems.

Of course we should want priests to be worthy men who are orthodox in their beliefs, moral in their living, and faithful to their vocations. But we also recognize that they still have free will and we are all fallen creatures, prone to sin. There will be people who fall away, as well as great sinners who are converted, and of course people who do both at different times of their lives, in whatever order. We need to remember that we place our faith in Christ and in God's faithful guidance of the Church as a whole, not any imagined impeccability of members of the Church in general or the clergy in particular.

I'm a little confused about the question you've used as a title for this thread. Holy Orders doesn't take away free will. Certainly the Church must be discerning about who is ordained to the deaconate and the priesthood, and it's my impression that standards have gotten steadily stricter over the last 20 years or so in this regard. But there are still a lot of older priests who never should have been ordained (not that most older priests are in this category of course!) and even now at least a few bad apples are still likely to manage to get through anyway by telling vocations directors and such what they want to hear (or through bad decisions by those who ought to have separated the rascals out before or during seminary), and others will go bad after being ordained. It's sad but practically inevitable.

Edit: Also, some priests are also actively removed. For example: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news...odays-the-day/

Why aren't more priests removed in this way? I'd wager it's a complex matter of bishops not being aware of the problems, legitmate caution and careful legal processes related towards sacking priests who appear unorthodox, and, yes, possibly excessive caution about this in some quarters as well.
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Last edited by Aelred Minor; Aug 20, '11 at 5:44 pm.
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  #6  
Old Aug 20, '11, 7:38 pm
Newbie2 Newbie2 is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie View Post
in answer to thread title, the priest is leaving the priesthood, and no doubt if he did not first do this on his own would soon be ousted by his bishop or referred to the Vatican for that action, so why do you say that the Church "allows" bad priests?
Perhaps the OP is wondering why this particular man was allowed to become a priest?
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  #7  
Old Aug 20, '11, 7:44 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

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Originally Posted by mathematoons View Post

What do you all think?
I think that the line between good and evil runs straight through the middle of every human heart, including those of our priests. They are just as human as the rest of us.

We all have choices to make every day - sometimes we choose to do good, and sometimes we choose to do evil. The Church has no way to guarantee that every priest will always make good choices every day of his life - it is impossible.

All the Church can do is train them to the best of her ability, expect the best of them, and keep on praying for them - and when it becomes necessary, discipline them.
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  #8  
Old Aug 27, '11, 11:13 am
mathematoons mathematoons is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie2 View Post
Perhaps the OP is wondering why this particular man was allowed to become a priest?
No, I'm wondering why they kept him in all this time when they knew he was supporting same-sex "marriage" and trying to liberalize the Church. He has told me several times that the Church "needs to update its teaching" on issues of sexuality and gender. The Church can no more "update" such teachings than it can "update" 2+2=4 ! He has also told me that only dogma has to be believed, and that the Catechism is optional, even though (as my new priest told me) any priest--indeed, any Catholic--who disagrees with the Catechism is wrong.
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  #9  
Old Aug 27, '11, 12:57 pm
Jim Roberts Jim Roberts is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

[quote=mathematoons;8269111]My priest (Fr. Matz) is mentioned by name in this article, which I found last night:

http://www.calcatholic.com/news/news...e-c350e12beb0d

I found out last week that he's leaving the Church to spend all his time in this pro-GLBT ministry mentioned in the article. It really hurt, because he was my first priest, the one who inspired us to go into the Church after many years as "cultural Catholics." My mom and I are the only ones in the parish who are upset at him for this (everyone else there is so liberal it makes us sick), so we're changing parishes.

________________________________________ ___________________________
God gibves you the age of reasoning, if this is what your priest wantgas sto do, God bless him.\\JESUS I TRUST IN YOU

jr
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  #10  
Old Aug 27, '11, 4:48 pm
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: Why does the Church allow bad priests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathematoons View Post
No, I'm wondering why they kept him in all this time when they knew he was supporting same-sex "marriage" and trying to liberalize the Church. He has told me several times that the Church "needs to update its teaching" on issues of sexuality and gender. The Church can no more "update" such teachings than it can "update" 2+2=4 ! He has also told me that only dogma has to be believed, and that the Catechism is optional, even though (as my new priest told me) any priest--indeed, any Catholic--who disagrees with the Catechism is wrong.
I bet it probably didn't happen because it would have made a huge scene especially in California, which is something Bishops like to avoid even if their is good cause sadly. There may have been disciplinary action occurring that you weren't aware of as well that stopped short of ousting him from his position. The great thing about the Catholic Church is no one priest teaching should lead the faithful away especially in today's age of the internet where with a few clicks everyone has access to the full wealth of knowledge of the Catholic Church!
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