Is Divine Revelation subject to science?

[Alpine Meadow]

Cheers,

I went through a great 2 yr Catholic RCIA program directed by two lovely priests.

Several months ago, our family moved and we have joined a new Catholic parish community. I'm hearing some things that are quite disturbing, as they go against what I learned in RCIA.

Hence, I'll be posting some questions for informed members as I hope to work though the confusion. Thanks.

Is Divine Revelation subject to science?

Cheers and God bless you,
Alpine Meadow

[Pete Holter]

Greetings in the LORD, Alpine Meadow!

I don’t think that we would say that Divine Revelation is subject to science, but simply that the true demonstrations of science will not contradict true interpretations of Scripture:

“Whatever [scientists] can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures” (Saint Augustine, On the Literal Meaning of Genesis, Bk. 1, 21:41; as quoted in Providentissimus Deus).

“If it is necessary – and it is necessary – to understand these two statements [of Scripture] so as to find both consistent and not conflicting with each other, it is also equally necessary that both of them be not in contradiction with the demonstrations [of science]” (Saint Augustine, On the Literal Meaning of Genesis, Bk. 2, 9:21).

The same would also be true of reason and Scripture:

“For if reason be found contradicting the authority of Divine Scriptures, it only deceives by a semblance of truth, however acute it be, for its deductions cannot in that case be true. On the other hand, if, against the most manifest and reliable testimony of reason, anything be set up claiming to have the authority of the Holy Scriptures, he who does this does it through a misapprehension of what he has read, and is setting up against the truth not the real meaning of Scripture, which he has failed to discover, but an opinion of his own; he alleges not what he has found in the Scriptures, but what he has found in himself as their interpreter” (Saint Augustine, Letter 143).

Have a blessed night. And welcome to the Catholic Church!

With love in Christ,
Pete

[Jim Dandy]

Science is about measuring things. Divine Revelation can't be measured.

Read Modern Physics, Ancient Faith, by Stephen Barr

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Physics...ons/0268034710

or God's Two Books, Copernican Cosmology and Ancient Biblical Interpretation

http://www.bing.com/search?q=god%27s...ox&FORM=IE8SRC

or The Science Before Science, the Guide to Thinking in the 21st Century by theoretical physicist Anthony Rizzi

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Before.../dp/1418465046

[roads152]

My personal view on this is that God revealed truth even before the invention of science. Man invented science in order to formulate human explanation to the truth that God revealed.
God's revelation predates science so that it seems incongruous that revelation can be subjected to science.

[buffalo]

Consider:

[followingtheway]

Originally Posted by Alpine Meadow

Is Divine Revelation subject to science?

I believe it's the other way around science is subject to Divine Revelation.

God bless

David

[Earnest Bunbury]

On the contrary, Augustine says (De Trin. xiv, 1) "to this science alone belongs that whereby saving faith is begotten, nourished, protected and strengthened." But this can be said of no science except sacred doctrine. Therefore sacred doctrine is a science.

I answer that, Sacred doctrine is a science. We must bear in mind that there are two kinds of sciences. There are some which proceed from a principle known by the natural light of intelligence, such as arithmetic and geometry and the like. There are some which proceed from principles known by the light of a higher science: thus the science of perspective proceeds from principles established by geometry, and music from principles established by arithmetic. So it is that sacred doctrine is a science because it proceeds from principles established by the light of a higher science, namely, the science of God and the blessed. Hence, just as the musician accepts on authority the principles taught him by the mathematician, so sacred science is established on principles revealed by God.

On the contrary, The object of the science is that of which it principally treats. But in this science, the treatment is mainly about God; for it is called theology, as treating of God. Therefore God is the object of this science.

On the contrary, Gregory says (Moral. xx, 1): "Holy Writ by the manner of its speech transcends every science, because in one and the same sentence, while it describes a fact, it reveals a mystery."

Divine revelation is not subject to science but is a science in itself, the study of which is called theology. It proceeds from truths known such as that God exists, He loves us, and He created everything including us.

What we know as science today rightly proceeds from two of the four causalities enumerated by Aristotle, material and efficient causality, but then rejects formal and final causes in the application of its results. Science becomes an end and form in and of itself without the truth of He Who made creation and to Whom it is to return. Edward Feser writes well of this in The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism

The science dedicated to truth is the only true science and includes divine revelation and human reason.

[DianaCC]

As Buffalo's diagram shows, science and religion overlap in some areas. For example, it is impossible to verify with scientific tests that a given host has been transubstantiated, but Our Lady's OBGYN can verify that she was a virgin before, during, and after the conception and birth of Our Lord. So it depends on the issue.

[Tomster]

Originally Posted by Alpine Meadow

Cheers,

I went through a great 2 yr Catholic RCIA program directed by two lovely priests.

Several months ago, our family moved and we have joined a new Catholic parish community. I'm hearing some things that are quite disturbing, as they go against what I learned in RCIA.

Hence, I'll be posting some questions for informed members as I hope to work though the confusion. Thanks.

Is Divine Revelation subject to science?

Cheers and God bless you,
Alpine Meadow

When the Church uses the word "revelation" in connection with faith, it has the definite meaning of a divine testimony. Revelation is the act whereby God speaks to man, making a statement to the truth of which he testifies. (See Hebrews 1:1)

The Catholic Church was instituted, the visible, infallible society in which and through which the revelation of Christ was to be preserved and propagated. The Church, the mystical body of Christ, was to perpetuate his work, to bear witness to the truth until the consummation of the world. As the doctrine of Christ was the doctrine of the Father who sent him, so the teaching of the Church is the teaching of Christ who instituted her. Just as Christ had proved his divine mission, so the Church bears in the sight of all men the manifest marks of her divine origin. The Church herself by reason of her wonderful extension, eminent holiness and inexhaustible fruitfulness in all good things, her Catholic unity and invincible stability, is an irrefutable witness to her own divine mission.

[tafan]

Divine Revelation, by definition comes from God; so it is not subject to anything. But neither should we be afraid of science with regards to issues of Divine Revelation. Faith and Reason can never contradict each other. Many protestants do not accept this idea, but it is a matter of doctrine in the Catholic Church. That is why the Church has never been afraid of promoting science, and using science when suited as part of Her mission.

[Little One0307]

Originally Posted by tafan

Divine Revelation, by definition comes from God; so it is not subject to anything. But neither should we be afraid of science with regards to issues of Divine Revelation. Faith and Reason can never contradict each other. Many protestants do not accept this idea, but it is a matter of doctrine in the Catholic Church. That is why the Church has never been afraid of promoting science, and using science when suited as part of Her mission.

Succintly put.

God bless you.

[Tomster]

Originally Posted by tafan

Divine Revelation, by definition comes from God; so it is not subject to anything. But neither should we be afraid of science with regards to issues of Divine Revelation. Faith and Reason can never contradict each other. Many protestants do not accept this idea, but it is a matter of doctrine in the Catholic Church. That is why the Church has never been afraid of promoting science, and using science when suited as part of Her mission.

Excellent!

And if I may add while the Church is solicitous to vindicate the just rights of human reason, while she has no sympathy with those who unduly disparage it, she strenuously resists the claim of rationalism that it is "the sole judge of the true and the false . . . that it is a law to itself and sufficient by its natural powers to procure the good of men and peoples." (Syllabus of Pius IX, n.3.)

The Church asserts the soundness of the human mind and its radical capacity for learning all natural truth; but she is mindful that man is in a fallen state, that disordered passion and the manifold distractions of material things hamper and retard him in his pursuit of religious knowledge.

Since the Church opposes the rationalist, we must bear in mind this most particular fact. According to the rationalist, not only can the human mind unaided know all natural truth, but natural truth is all that there is to know. The Church, on the contrary, teaches that there is an order of reality above that of nature, an order of reality which is beyond the reach of the human mind: the supernatural order.

[Alpine Meadow]

Great posts!!!

Cheers and God bless,
AM