Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Aug 23, '11, 4:41 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2004
Posts: 7,395
Default Great and Holy Council, 2013?

In poking around some Orthodox sites, I came upon mention of an upcoming Great and Holy Council of Orthodox bishops. There was some speculation it could be in 2013, in this thread from last year.

There is also some rather dated (but mostly still accurate) discussion of council agenda items from the Orthodox-Roman Catholic Dialogue, circa 1977.

So a few questons:
  1. Is 2013 still the most likely date?
  2. Who is not invited?
  3. Has there been any discussion of a location?
  4. The Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America mentions a united Church - are they speaking of an autocephalous N. American church free of any formal allegiance to heirarchy in the Old World?
  #2  
Old Aug 23, '11, 5:15 pm
Mark of Ephesus Mark of Ephesus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Posts: 177
Religion: Holy Orthodoxy
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy View Post
In poking around some Orthodox sites, I came upon mention of an upcoming Great and Holy Council of Orthodox bishops. There was some speculation it could be in 2013, in this thread from last year.

There is also some rather dated (but mostly still accurate) discussion of council agenda items from the Orthodox-Roman Catholic Dialogue, circa 1977.

So a few questons:
  1. Is 2013 still the most likely date?
  2. Who is not invited?
  3. Has there been any discussion of a location?
  4. The Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America mentions a united Church - are they speaking of an autocephalous N. American church free of any formal allegiance to heirarchy in the Old World?
Fortunately, various disputes over autocephaly/autonomy/EP jurisdiction/order of primacy keep these sorts of councils from happening.
  #3  
Old Aug 23, '11, 5:20 pm
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Posts: 922
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark of Ephesus View Post
Fortunately, various disputes over autocephaly/autonomy/EP jurisdiction/order of primacy keep these sorts of councils from happening.
You can not possibly be serious. You think that having NOT having a council is a "Good Thing". You truly believe that God WANTS the church to be divided as it is? That He wants to see all of the Apostolic Churches at each others throats?

I would strongly recommend that you spend some time contemplating God, and his purpose for the Church, instead of hoping that councils that just might move us all slightly closer to reconciliation never occur.
  #4  
Old Aug 23, '11, 5:30 pm
Mark of Ephesus Mark of Ephesus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Posts: 177
Religion: Holy Orthodoxy
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Medic View Post
You can not possibly be serious. You think that having NOT having a council is a "Good Thing". You truly believe that God WANTS the church to be divided as it is? That He wants to see all of the Apostolic Churches at each others throats?

I would strongly recommend that you spend some time contemplating God, and his purpose for the Church, instead of hoping that councils that just might move us all slightly closer to reconciliation never occur.
I simply do not trust the majority of my bishops. A significant portion of them have fallen under the sway of ecumenism (and other unpatristic ideas and practices), and thus will be willing to compromise the faith for either unity or ambition. This council would cause division.
  #5  
Old Aug 23, '11, 9:31 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2004
Posts: 7,395
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

I found a bit more discussion about this, particularly my last question.
http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/05/t...uestion-looms/
It sounds as though the main problem in areas of diaspora such as North America is the presence of more than one bishop in a city. Presenting that as a problem seems to presuppose a solution of eliminating the redundancy - and I'm not sure how that would happen without merging the various "ethnic" Churches into one. Whether that would then be a fully autocephalous combined North American Church or something slightly less ambitious seems to be the question.

Anyway, the Assembly of Canonical Bishops is one of 12 such assemblies through the world, designed to gather various bishops from within geographic areas of the diaspora. Here's the breakdown:

Quote:
North America and Central America
South America
Australia, New Zealand and Oceania
Great Britain and Ireland
France
Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg
Austria
Italy and Malta
Switzerland and Lichtenstein
Germany
Scandinavian countries (except Finland)
Spain and Portugal
No Africa or Asia?
  #6  
Old Aug 24, '11, 5:46 am
Harpazo's Avatar
Harpazo Harpazo is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2006
Posts: 2,041
Religion: Orthodox Christian (Bulgarian Diocese of USA)
Send a message via AIM to Harpazo Send a message via MSN to Harpazo Send a message via Skype™ to Harpazo
Smile Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy View Post
I found a bit more discussion about this, particularly my last question.
http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2010/05/t...uestion-looms/
It sounds as though the main problem in areas of diaspora such as North America is the presence of more than one bishop in a city. Presenting that as a problem seems to presuppose a solution of eliminating the redundancy - and I'm not sure how that would happen without merging the various "ethnic" Churches into one. Whether that would then be a fully autocephalous combined North American Church or something slightly less ambitious seems to be the question.

Anyway, the Assembly of Canonical Bishops is one of 12 such assemblies through the world, designed to gather various bishops from within geographic areas of the diaspora. Here's the breakdown:

No Africa or Asia?
Africa is under Alexandria and much of Asia is under Moscow. They don't have enough Orthodox in many parts of Asia to be susceptible to the same problems. The Japanese have an autonomous Orthodox church.

In Christ,
Andrew
__________________
Все меняется, ничто не исчезает.
"Nothing disappears, it only changes"-Russian Proverb

Check out my Examiner page.
"It is later than you think! Therefore, hasten to do the work of God!" - Blessed Seraphim of Platina.
  #7  
Old Aug 24, '11, 7:45 am
The Old Medic The Old Medic is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Posts: 922
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

So, you are against the reuniting of the Apostolic Churches, and you do NOt trust that the Holy Spirit would be guiding any such efforts.

You would much rather have division than unity. OK, that's your position, but hopefully it is NOT the position of those that actually trust that the Holy Spirit will guide such efforts.

It is a very sad thing when followers of any sect do not trust their own leadership, or their God.
  #8  
Old Aug 24, '11, 8:43 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Greetings,

I pray that all Christains everywhere may come to be united. I am not the first to pray this prayer, now shall I be the last to echo it.



God bless.
Anathama Sit.
  #9  
Old Aug 24, '11, 9:34 am
Mark of Ephesus Mark of Ephesus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Posts: 177
Religion: Holy Orthodoxy
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Medic View Post
So, you are against the reuniting of the Apostolic Churches, and you do NOt trust that the Holy Spirit would be guiding any such efforts.

You would much rather have division than unity. OK, that's your position, but hopefully it is NOT the position of those that actually trust that the Holy Spirit will guide such efforts.

It is a very sad thing when followers of any sect do not trust their own leadership, or their God.
How do you define an "Apostolic Church"?

In the case of some sort of conciliar "union", new schisms would emerge. Significant portions of both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church would break from their appropriate bodies on the grounds that said union is heretical. In the end, we have too many differences to be resolved at a council.

How would you know the Holy Spirit is guiding such an action? I trust the men who have actually had actually seen the uncreated energies of God (which is almost entirely monks), none of which would lend support to the kind of union you have in mind. Either side would have to admit being wrong, and that certainly isn't happening on the Orthodox side (and I doubt traditionalist Catholics will be fond of it either).

In any event, the supposed Orthodox Council of 2013 would primarily deal with other issues (not ecumenism), so I doubt we would be that much closer to "unity" anyway. Sometimes councils are not only wrong, but are led by forces working against the Holy Spirit (think back to 449).
  #10  
Old Aug 24, '11, 9:56 am
GaryTaylor's Avatar
GaryTaylor GaryTaylor is online now
Forum Master
 
Join Date: March 30, 2010
Posts: 19,777
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark of Ephesus View Post
How do you define an "Apostolic Church"?

In the case of some sort of conciliar "union", new schisms would emerge. Significant portions of both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church would break from their appropriate bodies on the grounds that said union is heretical. In the end, we have too many differences to be resolved at a council.

How would you know the Holy Spirit is guiding such an action? I trust the men who have actually had actually seen the uncreated energies of God (which is almost entirely monks), none of which would lend support to the kind of union you have in mind. Either side would have to admit being wrong, and that certainly isn't happening on the Orthodox side (and I doubt traditionalist Catholics will be fond of it either).

In any event, the supposed Orthodox Council of 2013 would primarily deal with other issues (not ecumenism), so I doubt we would be that much closer to "unity" anyway. Sometimes councils are not only wrong, but are led by forces working against the Holy Spirit (think back to 449).
Right, the supposed Orthodox Council of 2013 is an EO council thats been on the interent here and there. No mention of Rome.
__________________


"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen." St. Gertrude
  #11  
Old Aug 24, '11, 10:54 am
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2004
Posts: 7,395
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpazo View Post
Africa is under Alexandria
All of Africa? It seems likely that southern Africa might have a bit more diversity, due to migration from both Europe and India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbazo
They don't have enough Orthodox in many parts of Asia to be susceptible to the same problems.
Hmmm... I'm a little amazed, considering the Orthodox tradition in India, the Armenian church, and historical Antiochene spread from the near East into the middle East. But I suppose the Armenians don't count since they are Oriental Orthodox; I'm not sure about the Indians. It's still surprising that the Benelux countries have a more serious issue than anywhere in Asia.
  #12  
Old Aug 24, '11, 12:57 pm
Cavaradossi's Avatar
Cavaradossi Cavaradossi is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Posts: 3,363
Religion: Orthodox
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy View Post
All of Africa? It seems likely that southern Africa might have a bit more diversity, due to migration from both Europe and India.Hmmm... I'm a little amazed, considering the Orthodox tradition in India, the Armenian church, and historical Antiochene spread from the near East into the middle East. But I suppose the Armenians don't count since they are Oriental Orthodox; I'm not sure about the Indians. It's still surprising that the Benelux countries have a more serious issue than anywhere in Asia.
The Indians are also Oriental Orthodox.
  #13  
Old Feb 16, '12, 9:28 am
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2004
Posts: 7,395
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

I found a lengthy discussion on the message board of Holy Cross Monastery, an OCA monastery in California. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.
"Great and Holy Council:" Opinions?

I also came across this recent news story:
Quote:
Georgian Patriarch Against Great and Holy Council At This Time

...Patriarch Ilia said that the Ecumenical Patriarch's proposal is that all the temples without a mother church must belong to the Ecumenical Patriarch.

"We told him that the temple must belong to the mother church of the country if the congregation wishes, and if the congregation want this temple to belong to the Ecumenical Patriarch, then the mother church will not be against this", Ilia II said, adding that a lot of issues are to be solved and it's very dangerous to summon an Orthodox meeting. He voiced hope that all the issues will be solved, but he also said it would take time.
  #14  
Old Feb 16, '12, 10:39 am
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2004
Posts: 7,395
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy View Post
I found a lengthy discussion on the message board of Holy Cross Monastery, an OCA monastery in California. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.
"Great and Holy Council:" Opinions?
Please don't bother reading more than the first two posts there. Let's just say the monastery needs to pray for protection from spam. Sorry I put that up before noticing.
  #15  
Old Feb 17, '12, 3:28 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2010
Posts: 7,111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Great and Holy Council, 2013?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark of Ephesus View Post
I simply do not trust the majority of my bishops. A significant portion of them have fallen under the sway of ecumenism (and other unpatristic ideas and practices), and thus will be willing to compromise the faith for either unity or ambition. This council would cause division.
What is it or what action from Orthodox bishops have led to your lack of trust in them? Second,how do you know with any certitude your bishops will compromise the faith for unity? Third, all councils have in some way caused division in one form or another,nothing can stop such a human habit. Not one everyone will be happy.


Peace brother in Christ
Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8257Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5018CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4345Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: lsbar
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3835SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3570Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3230Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3206Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Chast Forever
3132Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3048For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: tammany



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:19 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.