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  #16  
Old Aug 31, '11, 8:20 pm
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by ciero View Post
How can you support an illegal state that persecutes Catholics and other Christians......especially Palestinian Christians. The unholy state if Isreal is driving indigenous Christians out of Bethlehem, Nazareth and other cities and areas that once had a large and vibrant Chrustian community. I don't know how a Catholic with an informed understanding of the situation could support the "state of Israel".
I have another idea. How about america stops giving Israel weapons and stuff, and instead we come over and make Palestine a country called "the Holy Land". It'll be a land filled with Christians, favoring Catholics, and be open to many visitors. A very peaceful place. sound fair?


BTW I'm sure there are Jewish christians also.
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  #17  
Old Aug 31, '11, 8:24 pm
kitkatty kitkatty is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by Seamus L View Post
My sympathies are with the Palestinian Christians first and foremost.



Mine too.
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  #18  
Old Aug 31, '11, 8:25 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

The Vatican has diplomatic ties to Israel, so evidently they consider they consider them a legitimate state. And, Christian access to all the holy sites connected to our LORD's life has been protected by the Israelis much better than during the periods of Muslim governance.

ICXC NIKA
  #19  
Old Aug 31, '11, 8:27 pm
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The_Scott The_Scott is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
The Vatican has diplomatic ties to Israel, so evidently they consider they consider them a legitimate state. And, Christian access to all the holy sites connected to our LORD's life has been protected by the Israelis much better than during the periods of Muslim governance.

ICXC NIKA
Doesn't the Vatican also jab diplomatic ties to Palestine? Something like that...
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  #20  
Old Aug 31, '11, 8:37 pm
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Julian0404 Julian0404 is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

I find it very difficult to understand a position of "nuetrality" taken by a Catholic in defense of Isreal. Our faith was born from the Jewish faith. Our LORD and MASTER lived and died a Jew. All of HIS apostles with the exception of Luke were Jews. HIS holy Mother is our Queen Mother - a Jewish tradition. HIS Jewish washing in the Jordan river by John the Baptist - initiated our baptism. HIS last Passover meal initiated our MASS. We should be Jewish except for the rejection by the leadership of JESUS, but not by all as is evident at the first Pentecost.
HIS covenant protection for the nation of Isreal is still very much in place and we would do well not to stand against GOD's covenant protection or to take a "whatever" attitude of indifferent nuetrality.
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  #21  
Old Aug 31, '11, 9:13 pm
cmforte cmforte is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus L
My sympathies are with the Palestinian Christians first and foremost.

Mine too.
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I second that!!

-Chris
  #22  
Old Aug 31, '11, 9:17 pm
cmforte cmforte is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Guy View Post
I have another idea. How about america stops giving Israel weapons and stuff, and instead we come over and make Palestine a country called "the Holy Land". It'll be a land filled with Christians, favoring Catholics, and be open to many visitors. A very peaceful place. sound fair?


BTW I'm sure there are Jewish christians also.
I would like that, but make it a democracy with the separation of church and state and give everyone in it freedom of religion, allowing non-Catholic christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Hindus for that matter, live, work, worship, and govern there together in peace.

-Chris
  #23  
Old Aug 31, '11, 9:33 pm
kitkatty kitkatty is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by cmforte View Post
I would like that, but make it a democracy with the separation of church and state and give everyone in it freedom of religion, allowing non-Catholic christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Hindus for that matter, live, work, worship, and govern there together in peace.

-Chris
I like that Chris, truly a Catholic Christian idea! Also,to those who are concerned about forsaking the Jewish people because of the covenent made with them, are we not dealing in the present with a very secular Israeli state? Any thoughts on this?
I think Israel has a right to exist, certainly, but not every country is morally correct all of the time and I can`t in good conscience support any country when they are in the wrong
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  #24  
Old Aug 31, '11, 9:40 pm
cmforte cmforte is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by kitkatty View Post
I like that Chris, truly a Catholic Christian idea! Also,to those who are concerned about forsaking the Jewish people because of the covenent made with them, are we not dealing in the present with a very secular Israeli state? Any thoughts on this?
I think Israel has a right to exist, certainly, but not every country is morally correct all of the time and I can`t in good conscience support any country when they are in the wrong
I second that! But even that statement is considered anti-Semitic by many people. Go figure that one out.

-Chris
  #25  
Old Sep 1, '11, 5:21 am
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

The Zionist state of Isreal has NOTHING to do with biblical prophecy. I find the Jews to be quite hypocritical when it comes to the state of Isreal. To claim that the Palestinian land is theirs after they had not lived there for nearly 1000 years and to confiscate the land of Palestinian Christians who have lived there for generations is hardley the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. I find it discusting that the US government gives so much money and suport to the Zionists. The US is responsible for the de Christianization of the Holy Land. At the rate things are going there will be NO Christians left in the Holy Land in a generation.


I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4 View Post
While I definitely love and respect the Arab Christians in the Hnoly Land,
and pray for their success and well-being,
I am 100%, and then some, in full support
of the Jewish state of ISRAEL.

I am a Catholic, and do not believe in premillenial dispensationalism or
any such protestant interpretation of scripture,
but I most DEFINITELY believe that the re-establishment
of the Jewish state in the Promised Land IS a fulfillment of biblical prophecy,
and that ultimately it is GOD HIMSELF who has brought these
dear people back to their beloved land and beloved city of JERUSALEM.
To have Israel re-born in 1948, just three years after the Nazi-led
massacre of 6 million of the Jews of the world, is nothing short of a miracle,
no matter what political machinations were also involved,
and I don't honestly see how any one can deny the Hand of God in this.
To me, it is all too obvious.
Long live Israel. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
Jaypeeto4
  #26  
Old Sep 1, '11, 6:40 am
St Francis St Francis is online now
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

I took a course in Middle East politics in college, lo these many decades ago, and long before I was anything more than a practical atheist.

And I have always been a supporter of Israel as a result. Not for any religious reasons or anything like that, but just by looking at the facts and results.

However, I do feel that those who are called Palestinians have been used and abused by the Arabs and are in a terrible position. I feel sorry for most of them because they are pawns in power politics there.

And I am not saying that the Israelis have never done anything wrong, hey, even the US has done some things wrong!

So much of what is happening has its roots in the Cold War and a lot of times people don't understand those issues.

So basically I think that Catholics and everyone else should read about what happened from both points of view and make up their own minds.
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  #27  
Old Sep 1, '11, 8:12 am
ChadS ChadS is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian0404 View Post
I find it very difficult to understand a position of "nuetrality" taken by a Catholic in defense of Isreal. Our faith was born from the Jewish faith. Our LORD and MASTER lived and died a Jew. All of HIS apostles with the exception of Luke were Jews. HIS holy Mother is our Queen Mother - a Jewish tradition. HIS Jewish washing in the Jordan river by John the Baptist - initiated our baptism. HIS last Passover meal initiated our MASS. We should be Jewish except for the rejection by the leadership of JESUS, but not by all as is evident at the first Pentecost.
HIS covenant protection for the nation of Isreal is still very much in place and we would do well not to stand against GOD's covenant protection or to take a "whatever" attitude of indifferent nuetrality.
The Jewish origins of our faith have nothing to do with the modern state of Israel. Nor as a Catholic do we have to be an apologist for Israeli actions towards Palestinians. Being a good Catholic and recognizing our Jewish roots does not mean we have to follow blindly all of Israel's policies.

ChadS
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  #28  
Old Sep 1, '11, 9:10 am
Wardog Wardog is offline
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Cool Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

As a Catholic I support Israel as the only country in the Middle East where I can worship freely and legally.

As an American, I support Israel as the only working democracy in the Middle East.

Even when I disagree with specific policies, I support the right of Israel to exist.
  #29  
Old Sep 1, '11, 9:18 am
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

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Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
As a Catholic I support Israel as the only country in the Middle East where I can worship freely and legally.

As an American, I support Israel as the only working democracy in the Middle East.

Even when I disagree with specific policies, I support the right of Israel to exist.
It is just as legal (even more so actually ) for Christians to worship in the Palestinian territories as in Zionist "Israel"! Zionist "Israel" is hardly democratic, ask any non Jew who lives there. If your not a Jew you have few rights.

Why do you think the US is so supportive of The Israelie state?
  #30  
Old Sep 1, '11, 10:50 am
Wardog Wardog is offline
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Cool Re: Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciero View Post
It is just as legal (even more so actually ) for Christians to worship in the Palestinian territories as in Zionist "Israel"! Zionist "Israel" is hardly democratic, ask any non Jew who lives there. If your not a Jew you have few rights.

Why do you think the US is so supportive of The Israelie state?
I went to look up Christians in Palenstine and Israel on the Internet. I could not find an unbiased account, so the reports were on the extremes on both sides, with no middle ground except that each side went out of their way why the other side was worse.

So I can only go with the facts that I can determine myself;

1. Israel was attacked 3 times: 1948, 1967, 1972. each time they not only beat back the attackers, but gained more territory. Most of which (Sinai Penninsula) was returned.

2. There is no good reason why the Palestinians are still called refugees, except that none of the Arab countries (Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia) wanted to take them in; it was preferred to keep them in Palestine for political reasons.

3. The consitution of Palestine explicitly calls out for the extinction of Israel; many of their badges show Palestine occupying the borders of Israel. The peace talks continue to break down because the palestine leaders cannot drop this demand; I find it hard to require Israel to negotiate in blind faith with an enemy dedicated to the destruction of every Jew.

4. When I was last in Israel in the early 90s, I went to a kibbutz near the border of Lebanon. The week earlier they had been under rocket attack from across the border. They said it was a routine event, which according to news reports continues along the Israeli border today.

5. Israel is a Democracy with a capital D. I can't testify to what you said about being a non-Jew in Israel. I can testify that in the last 60 years since the founding of Israel the government has peacefully changed hands thru elections. No other country in the Middle East can say the same thing,
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